Dog's Football Thread Part Six.

A right load of bollocks...

Dog's Football Thread Part Six.

Postby Trapper John » Mon Nov 27, 2017 9:09 am

Vicky wrote:Talking of Arsenal and penalties..

Arsenal beat Burnley 1-0 last season with a penalty scored in the 98th minute.

Burnley's manager is raging about this.

:header:


Thats almost correct and this is why many of the reports I'm seeing say Arsenal win with 'controversial last minute penalty' and it gives totally the wrong impression.

Firstly, there was no controversy about the decision, Tarkowski definitely pushes Ramsey to the ground from behind with both hands inside the box as Ramsey is trying to get to the ball, Burnley manager Sean Dyche has admitted that.

The reason the media are calling it 'controversial' is purely based on both games from last season. In the first match at Burnley it was again a hard fought game like yesterday. Arsenal scored the only goal in the 93rd minute, winning 0-1.

Obviously gutted to lose the game in the last seconds, Burnley claimed all sorts of infringements, like the shot from Chamberlain was deflected off Koscielny's arm and that Koscielny was offside anyway. I have to say not many people outside Burnley agreed, it was just one of those scrambled last minute goals where the ball could have ended up anywhere and hit many players before ending up in the net.

The second game at the Emirates is what most are pointing to though. There were a good deal of stoppages in the second half of that game, resulting in the ref awarding a prolonged period of stoppage time.

What they don't like to point out because it spoils their theory is that much of the stoppage time was due to Granit Xhaka being sent off in the 65th minute with an arguable red card after Arsenal took a 1-0 lead 6 minutes earlier.

Arsenal then had to play the last 25 minutes with 10 men and Burnley still couldn't score from open play. In fact the other thing they don't like to mention is, that stoppage time benefitted Burnley because at a goal down and 3 minutes into injury time, Burnley were awarded a penalty, scoring and levelling the match.

Then with added time to the added time because of the penalty, Arsenal's last minute attack drew another penalty, this time from a Burnley side desperate to come away from the game with an away point. Sanchez converted from the spot, Arsenal won 2-1 and Burnley whined as usual.

So there was no 'controversy' at all in yesterday's game or either of those last season, just understandably imagined ones from a Burnley side who for three games against Arsenal got 'so near, yet so far'.
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Vicks » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:08 am

Trapper John wrote:
Vicky wrote:Talking of Arsenal and penalties..

Arsenal beat Burnley 1-0 last season with a penalty scored in the 98th minute.

Burnley's manager is raging about this.

:header:


Thats almost correct and this is why many of the reports I'm seeing say Arsenal win with 'controversial last minute penalty' and it gives totally the wrong impression.

Firstly, there was no controversy about the decision, Tarkowski definitely pushes Ramsey to the ground from behind with both hands inside the box as Ramsey is trying to get to the ball, Burnley manager Sean Dyche has admitted that.

The reason the media are calling it 'controversial' is purely based on both games from last season. In the first match at Burnley it was again a hard fought game like yesterday. Arsenal scored the only goal in the 93rd minute, winning 0-1.

Obviously gutted to lose the game in the last seconds, Burnley claimed all sorts of infringements, like the shot from Chamberlain was deflected off Koscielny's arm and that Koscielny was offside anyway. I have to say not many people outside Burnley agreed, it was just one of those scrambled last minute goals where the ball could have ended up anywhere and hit many players before ending up in the net.

The second game at the Emirates is what most are pointing to though. There were a good deal of stoppages in the second half of that game, resulting in the ref awarding a prolonged period of stoppage time.

What they don't like to point out because it spoils their theory is that much of the stoppage time was due to Granit Xhaka being sent off in the 65th minute with an arguable red card after Arsenal took a 1-0 lead 6 minutes earlier.

Arsenal then had to play the last 25 minutes with 10 men and Burnley still couldn't score from open play. In fact the other thing they don't like to mention is, that stoppage time benefitted Burnley because at a goal down and 3 minutes into injury time, Burnley were awarded a penalty, scoring and levelling the match.

Then with added time to the added time because of the penalty, Arsenal's last minute attack drew another penalty, this time from a Burnley side desperate to come away from the game with an away point. Sanchez converted from the spot, Arsenal won 2-1 and Burnley whined as usual.

So there was no 'controversy' at all in yesterday's game or either of those last season, just understandably imagined ones from a Burnley side who for three games against Arsenal got 'so near, yet so far'.


I didn't see the incident TJ, so i'll take your word for it.

The guy is obviously just very disappointed at not coming away with something from the game.

Losing like that is always a hard pill to swallow.
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Trapper John » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:18 am

Sean Dyche was understandably upset yesterday after the game, though I bet that inside it was more about 'why the fuck did Tarkowski stick his hands on Ramsey at all' than anything else.

Dyche then makes some odd statements which we have to put down to 'heat of the moment' coming not long after such a disappointment.

He said that "yes he (Tarkowski) does push Ramsey from behind but he (Ramsey) is going away from the goal and wouldn't have got a shot in" then says, "it's ridiculous to give a penalty when the player (Ramsey) can't score."

I think he's got himself confused about the rules of the game, a foul against an opposing player in the box is a penalty, regardless of whether he can score or not. If you believe that Ramsey couldn't have scored or put the ball into the path of another to score, then it would be harsh to 'red card' that player as well as award a penalty admittedly, but the foul has still been committed.

Tarkowski didn't get a red card because he was neither the last man nor denied an obvious goal scoring opportunity, nevertheless he fouled Ramsey and the penalty decision was the correct one, ref Lee Mason didn't hesitate because he clearly saw what happened.

Dyche's moan though is primarily at refs as he's alluded to the possibility that had the event been in the other box, he feels Burnley wouldn't have got a penalty for that foul saying that big teams get more decisions go their way than the smaller ones.

He may be right, but Arsenal aren't regarded as a 'big team' in the eyes of refs, you only need look at the penalty awards for and against to prove that.

For instance, last season Arsenal were awarded 6 penalties but had 10 go against them. When you put that up against say Spurs and Man City they got 9 awards each and only 2 & 4 go against them, respectively. Neither does his 'big team' theory appear to pan out, last season Bournemouth were awarded the most penalties with 10.
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Trapper John » Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:38 am

Now we've got that sorted, I'll give a quick resume on the other two games which finished the the Premier League weekend off.

Southampton put Everton to the sword yesterday 4-1 and there is little more to say than that. Injury prone Charlie Austin got himself a brace of classy headers in the process, was a highlight.

The Saints victory came not so much, in fact not even, from a great performance but from and abjectly poor and often horrendously woeful Everton who appear to be heading into oblivion without a care in the world.

To put Everton's situation into perspective, in just the past 7 days they've played 3 games in all competitions and conceded 11 goals and scored 4 there is something very wrong at that club.
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Trapper John » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:08 pm

I can't finish my reports without mentioning Manchester City's continued 'good fortune' when it comes to refereeing decisions.

Readers of this thread will understand when I say in my best 'Lord of the Rings' tone 'you know of what I speak' when referring to match officials and Manchester City in the same sentence, the song 'Love & Marriage' was actually written for them.

Once again yesterday didn't disappoint, after going a goal down to Huddersfield in the 1st minute when a shot at goal ricochetted off City defender Otamendi and deflected into their net, City were up against a determined defence and failed to break them down for the rest of the half, something becoming a habit of late.

Obviously a half time pow wow was urgently called between City and the match officials and a solution looked to have been found early in the second half but not until after some hairy moments passed.

Soon as the game restarted, Raheem Sterling gets himself into the penalty box, does one of his trademark dives and is absolutely gobsmacked that the ref doesn't give a spot kick. The look on his face said it all "Jeez ref, you know what was decided at half time, I go down, you give a penalty whats hard about that?" The only reason I can think he didn't give the penalty then is because it was too early in the second half and would have been too obvious a set up.

It didn't take long though, Sterling was back in the box a few moments later, eager to get this equaliser and sure enough an equally obvious dive gets the desired result and City level the score after 47 minutes with Aguero from the penalty spot.

Probably because they have so many foreigners, something appears to have got lost in translation during the half time 'collusion' as the ref clearly only agreed to give the one penalty, yet every City player became Tom Daly in an effort to get another.

It got so bad that the ref was left with no alternative but to book Fernando for his attempt, trying to put an end to the nonsense and steer any accusations of cheating away from him.

Finally it looked as if Huddersfield were going to get a point from the game as City were unable to get past a stoic defence. Then with just 6 minutes left another failed attempt at goal took a fortunate bounce off an unaware Sterling to find the back of the net.

At the end everyone except Huddersfield were happy, City keep their unbeaten run, the ref and PGMOL get through another City game without too much suspicion falling on them and Scudamore at the PL is happy his plan is still on track.
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Sunny » Mon Nov 27, 2017 12:37 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Sunny wrote:Maybe we should do that, pay off the officials to make sure you win in the 92minute!


You wouldn't say that if you'd seen the push, somehow I wished it was a referees 'error' so I could at least think we were getting some preferential treatment on decisions but sadly it wasn't.

You're building a new stadium, I don't think you've got much in the bribery and corruption budget. Though I would have thought there was still bundles in the kitty, you chucked plenty in it to get all those beneficial decisions last season.

Anyways, how are you and whats it like down there in 5th? ..... shouldn't be too bad, we've been keeping it warm for you becasue we knew you'd be back where you belong sooner or later. :cuppaT:

That's where your team now belong, hence why we are in the CL and you are in Europa!....enjoy your very brief time 4th.... :Hiya:
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Trapper John » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:10 pm

I just found quite an astounding Premier League statistic about Manchester City which brings the whole question of 'diving' and getting penalty decisions go their way, into focus.

Since 2010/2011 season, the first real season when the Abu Dhabi mob finally got to grips with football and whipped Manchester City into shape as the club they wanted it to be, they have not left the top three of teams to be awarded the most penalties each season.

That's 7 consectutive seasons in the top three, no other club comes anywhere close to that, the nearest is Chelsea with 3 appearances in the top three over the same period. What is more, they've had the most penalties awarded to them by a country mile, with 55 in total over that period, the nearest rival is again Chelsea with 26.

So it should come as no surprise that even after just 13 games they again top the list jointly with Southampton and Leicester, with 3 apiece, notable also that none of their recognised 'competition' feature with them.

How important penalty decisions going your way throughout a season are and disputing the mantra that 'things even themselves out over a season' hardly affecting the final standings, the following stat should rubbish that fallacy once and for all.

In the season that Leicester City had their 'remarkable' title win, it was probably far less remarkable when you find that they were awarded 13 penalties during that season 5 more than Man City in second who got 8.

More importantly though, Arsenal who came runners up to Leicester that season were only awarded 2, that's 11 less than Leicester, so it isn't any wonder the Gunners stood little chance of catching them. :shake head:
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Trapper John » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:20 pm

Sunny wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Sunny wrote:Maybe we should do that, pay off the officials to make sure you win in the 92minute!


You wouldn't say that if you'd seen the push, somehow I wished it was a referees 'error' so I could at least think we were getting some preferential treatment on decisions but sadly it wasn't.

You're building a new stadium, I don't think you've got much in the bribery and corruption budget. Though I would have thought there was still bundles in the kitty, you chucked plenty in it to get all those beneficial decisions last season.

Anyways, how are you and whats it like down there in 5th? ..... shouldn't be too bad, we've been keeping it warm for you becasue we knew you'd be back where you belong sooner or later. :cuppaT:

That's where your team now belong, hence why we are in the CL and you are in Europa!....enjoy your very brief time 4th.... :Hiya:


Thats the spirit, don't be downhearted there's plenty of games to go. :thumbsup: unfortunately for you, last season was just a blip in our remarkable Champions League record, it will be business as usual next season.

Anyways it's nice in this Europa league, through to the knockouts as champions with a game to go isn't bad, Spurs wouldn't know that of course because they are usually out of it by now.

Full Premier league fixture list tomorrow and Wednesday, we've got Huddrersfield at home, you've got Leicester away, so I doubt things will change much from where I'm sitting. :Hiya:
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Dean » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:25 pm

Trapper John wrote:I just found quite an astounding Premier League statistic about Manchester City which brings the whole question of 'diving' and getting penalty decisions go their way, into focus.

Since 2010/2011 season, the first real season when the Abu Dhabi mob finally got to grips with football and whipped Manchester City into shape as the club they wanted it to be, they have not left the top three of teams to be awarded the most penalties each season.

That's 7 consectutive seasons in the top three, no other club comes anywhere close to that, the nearest is Chelsea with 3 appearances in the top three over the same period. What is more, they've had the most penalties awarded to them by a country mile, with 55 in total over that period, the nearest rival is again Chelsea with 26.

So it should come as no surprise that even after just 13 games they again top the list jointly with Southampton and Leicester, with 3 apiece, notable also that none of their recognised 'competition' feature with them.

How important penalty decisions going your way throughout a season are and disputing the mantra that 'things even themselves out over a season' hardly affecting the final standings, the following stat should rubbish that fallacy once and for all.

In the season that Leicester City had their 'remarkable' title win, it was probably far less remarkable when you find that they were awarded 13 penalties during that season 5 more than Man City in second who got 8.

More importantly though, Arsenal who came runners up to Leicester that season were only awarded 2, that's 11 less than Leicester, so it isn't any wonder the Gunners stood little chance of catching them. :shake head:



Do you not think that a part of the reason why they have so many penalties is that they tend to have much more possession than their opponents? If they spend more time in the penalty area isn’t it likely that they’ll get more penalties? Also it could be argued that the way they play in and around the box is more likely to attract fouls... They have very skilful, tricky players that the move the ball quickly and cleverly, all possible reasons why they get more penalties...
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Trapper John » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:34 pm

Dean wrote:
Trapper John wrote:I just found quite an astounding Premier League statistic about Manchester City which brings the whole question of 'diving' and getting penalty decisions go their way, into focus.

Since 2010/2011 season, the first real season when the Abu Dhabi mob finally got to grips with football and whipped Manchester City into shape as the club they wanted it to be, they have not left the top three of teams to be awarded the most penalties each season.

That's 7 consectutive seasons in the top three, no other club comes anywhere close to that, the nearest is Chelsea with 3 appearances in the top three over the same period. What is more, they've had the most penalties awarded to them by a country mile, with 55 in total over that period, the nearest rival is again Chelsea with 26.

So it should come as no surprise that even after just 13 games they again top the list jointly with Southampton and Leicester, with 3 apiece, notable also that none of their recognised 'competition' feature with them.

How important penalty decisions going your way throughout a season are and disputing the mantra that 'things even themselves out over a season' hardly affecting the final standings, the following stat should rubbish that fallacy once and for all.

In the season that Leicester City had their 'remarkable' title win, it was probably far less remarkable when you find that they were awarded 13 penalties during that season 5 more than Man City in second who got 8.

More importantly though, Arsenal who came runners up to Leicester that season were only awarded 2, that's 11 less than Leicester, so it isn't any wonder the Gunners stood little chance of catching them. :shake head:



Do you not think that a part of the reason why they have so many penalties is that they tend to have much more possession than their opponents? If they spend more time in the penalty area isn’t it likely that they’ll get more penalties? Also it could be argued that the way they play in and around the box is more likely to attract fouls... They have very skilful, tricky players that the move the ball quickly and cleverly, all possible reasons why they get more penalties...


Possibly but did they always have that? ........ 7 consecutive seasons and 55 awards, more than double that of Chelsea is astounding you have to admit and don't other teams have just as many skillful players liable to be fouled in the box, so why haven't they reached those dizzying heights?
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Dean » Mon Nov 27, 2017 1:39 pm

Yes, it is an amazing stat, you’re right. All of the ‘big’ teams will have better possession of course, but your example, Chelsea, don’t play the same style of play as Man City... I was offering up possible reasons why they get more pens... but as you say, it’s a hard stat to ignore...
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Trapper John » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:02 pm

Dean wrote:Yes, it is an amazing stat, you’re right. All of the ‘big’ teams will have better possession of course, but your example, Chelsea, don’t play the same style of play as Man City... I was offering up possible reasons why they get more pens... but as you say, it’s a hard stat to ignore...


Aye it is and I find the Leicester/Arsenal stat even more galling. 13 penalties to 2 and a 10 point diffential at the end of the season, I've no way of checking though which of those decisions would have been decisive for either team or in fact non decisions. :dunno:
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Sunny » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:14 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Sunny wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Sunny wrote:Maybe we should do that, pay off the officials to make sure you win in the 92minute!


You wouldn't say that if you'd seen the push, somehow I wished it was a referees 'error' so I could at least think we were getting some preferential treatment on decisions but sadly it wasn't.

You're building a new stadium, I don't think you've got much in the bribery and corruption budget. Though I would have thought there was still bundles in the kitty, you chucked plenty in it to get all those beneficial decisions last season.

Anyways, how are you and whats it like down there in 5th? ..... shouldn't be too bad, we've been keeping it warm for you becasue we knew you'd be back where you belong sooner or later. :cuppaT:

That's where your team now belong, hence why we are in the CL and you are in Europa!....enjoy your very brief time 4th.... :Hiya:


Thats the spirit, don't be downhearted there's plenty of games to go. :thumbsup: unfortunately for you, last season was just a blip in our remarkable Champions League record, it will be business as usual next season.

Anyways it's nice in this Europa league, through to the knockouts as champions with a game to go isn't bad, Spurs wouldn't know that of course because they are usually out of it by now.

Full Premier league fixture list tomorrow and Wednesday, we've got Huddrersfield at home, you've got Leicester away, so I doubt things will change much from where I'm sitting. :Hiya:

Yes, plenty of games to go..........and as for Europa I wouldn't remember it's been a while since we were last in that!........ :laughing:
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Vicks » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:03 am

Rangers are playing the Sheep tomorrow night, that should be a good game.

I despise Aberdeen, they're on a par with Celtic.

I mean what kind of people sing things like "The Ibrox Disaster was magic?"

Riot police have been called to games in the past and on one occasion, some thug ran onto the pitch and kicked our Captain.

Image

http://www.totalfootballmag.com/scottish-football/scottish-football/best-of-enemies-rangers-v-aberdeen/
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Re: Dog's Football Thread Part Five.

Postby Vicks » Tue Nov 28, 2017 5:05 am

ibrox.jpg


What the Sheep fans did to the Rangers team bus last season.

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