400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

A right load of bollocks...

Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Lady Murasaki » Thu May 03, 2018 4:18 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:The civil war wasn’t just about abolishing slavery, it was about distributing the southern wealth. There was so much more politics involved than the slavery argument. But it’s more romantic for Americans to kid themselves that it was only about emancipation.


On the contrary it's not ordinary Americans who do that, it is the liberal elite and social warriors who call the civil war the war to end slavery, they shout down anyone who suggests otherwise, like they do.


But that’s all you’ve focussed on too. You social warrior, you!
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Guest » Thu May 03, 2018 4:23 pm

Dimples wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote: Kanye is a legend.


Sorry... but Kanye West is a complete arse. :thumbsup:


QTF.
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Trapper John » Thu May 03, 2018 4:23 pm

NastyNickers wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
No, but perhaps then someone should have asked them first before letting their white liberal feelings run away with themselves with the assumption that they all want to be free 'coz I do'

That assumption resulted in one of the bloodiest civil wars in human history and the deaths of millions it was supposed to save - sometimes there is a limit to how far we should go for the assumption that everyone wants to be like us.


How many millions have died for our wars? Throughout history people have sacrificed for a greater good. Have you considered that the slaves wanted freedom, and were willing to sacrifice for it? There are people fighting and dying in the Middle East for their freedom.

Again, you’re forgetting the African American abolitionists. Those who were freed saves and still campaigned for abolition.


Ok get that one out of the way first, Harriet Tubman, former slave and abolitionist mentioned at the beginning of the thread "I freed a thousand slaves I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves." what do you think she meant by that? I don't know but I can make the assumption that by not knowing they were slaves their lives were as they expected, just as budgie born into captivity in a cage knows no different, they knew no different. If they were being whipped and abused every day of their lives they'd have known something ain't right here you gotta get me out.

Harriet Tubman may have had a worse experience as a slave than others she tried to free, it's clearly indicated that some slaves didn't want to share her vision. I wonder if she had said to a gathered mass of slaves "I can free you from your chains but about a million of you are going to die in horrific ways over the next few years" they would all have jumped at her offer? Have you considered that some slaves just didn't want to be freed?

People who die for the greater good are victims of propaganda, they were in both world wars, they were in the American civil war. Those who die in the middle east today, die because others have political ends and they are stuck in the middle, there is no noble cause in any war. Why have we seen millions flee to Europe? Innocents who die in the middle east now are not dying for their freedom, they don't want their freedom they just want the war to stop and the killing to stop and the fear to stop. Believe me there are no noble notions amongst those poor people.
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Guest » Thu May 03, 2018 4:27 pm

is it as bad as all those lofty liberals that made being a single mum ok?

or should we still think of them as soiled, scrounging slappers like dm readers do?
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Trapper John » Thu May 03, 2018 4:38 pm

Right so I think we really are finished now, just remember everybody, just because you think something is right, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you or in fact that you are right at all. :thumbsup:
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Avon Barksdale » Thu May 03, 2018 4:55 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:The civil war wasn’t just about abolishing slavery, it was about distributing the southern wealth. There was so much more politics involved than the slavery argument. But it’s more romantic for Americans to kid themselves that it was only about emancipation.


On the contrary it's not ordinary Americans who do that, it is the liberal elite and social warriors who call the civil war the war to end slavery, they shout down anyone who suggests otherwise, like they do.


Right. So when the Republican Party say "We freed the slaves, aren't we great!" the answer is "no." When the Democrats proclaim "We are the party of emancipation, aren't we great" the answer is...also "no". Why because the slave trade was exactly that, a trade. What flows from trade? Money and power.

As you have helpfully pointed out the freed slaves were mostly left to fend from themselves in a hostile environment (topical no?) die in poverty and from disease. Were they ever compensated for the labour that had been extracted from them through force and brutalisation? No. It was the former slave owners who were compensated.

So, we have one group and community who benefited greatly (white slave holders) from the trade of treating other people (black slaves) as property. The white group accrued all the benefits that accrued at that time and over the course of time from that staggering economic boost. The black group were never rewarded for their labour or the disadvantageous position they suffered.

I don't think an apology suffices in that situation. I think some sort of reparations might do though. Now, it would clearly prove unworkable to have a direct compensation scheme for the ancestors of freed slaves and loss may be considered too remote. So what to do?

I know. Maybe some sort of affirmative action might help.

Thanks for helping to make the case for BLM so well TJ!
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Guest » Thu May 03, 2018 5:00 pm

Trapper John wrote:Right so I think we really are finished now, just remember everybody, just because you think something is right, doesn't mean everyone agrees with you or in fact that you are right at all. :thumbsup:


Yep.

Still, no one agrees with your racist nonsensical clap trap.
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Lady Murasaki » Thu May 03, 2018 5:07 pm

Guest wrote:
Dimples wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote: Kanye is a legend.


Sorry... but Kanye West is a complete arse. :thumbsup:


QTF.


:laughing:
I got the joke even though no one else has.
:thumbsup:
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Trapper John » Thu May 03, 2018 5:22 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:The civil war wasn’t just about abolishing slavery, it was about distributing the southern wealth. There was so much more politics involved than the slavery argument. But it’s more romantic for Americans to kid themselves that it was only about emancipation.


On the contrary it's not ordinary Americans who do that, it is the liberal elite and social warriors who call the civil war the war to end slavery, they shout down anyone who suggests otherwise, like they do.


Right. So when the Republican Party say "We freed the slaves, aren't we great!" the answer is "no." When the Democrats proclaim "We are the party of emancipation, aren't we great" the answer is...also "no". Why because the slave trade was exactly that, a trade. What flows from trade? Money and power.

As you have helpfully pointed out the freed slaves were mostly left to fend from themselves in a hostile environment (topical no?) die in poverty and from disease. Were they ever compensated for the labour that had been extracted from them through force and brutalisation? No. It was the former slave owners who were compensated.

So, we have one group and community who benefited greatly (white slave holders) from the trade of treating other people (black slaves) as property. The white group accrued all the benefits that accrued at that time and over the course of time from that staggering economic boost. The black group were never rewarded for their labour or the disadvantageous position they suffered.

I don't think an apology suffices in that situation. I think some sort of reparations might do though. Now, it would clearly prove unworkable to have a direct compensation scheme for the ancestors of freed slaves and loss may be considered too remote. So what to do?

I know. Maybe some sort of affirmative action might help.

Thanks for helping to make the case for BLM so well TJ!


You say that as if it should be anathema to me? quite the contrary, all human life matters not just black or white. I can also thank you for accepting that I have nothing to apologise for in regards black slavery. I had no ancestors owning plantations, I had no ancestors taking or using slaves, my ancestors were up chimneys at the age of seven at about the same time as others were picking cotton in the fields of Virginia.

I was hoping for a bit of compo myself, for the trails and tribulations my ancestors went through it's left me a depressed wreck just thinking about it all the time.

"As you have helpfully pointed out the freed slaves were mostly left to fend from themselves in a hostile environment" Happy to do so too. It's something that needs drumming into the cunts who have these lofty ideals, you can't just come up with these great ideas that sound all high and noble and when you have got your way, sail off into the sunset leaving a trail of death and destruction in your wake.
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Markey mark » Thu May 03, 2018 5:28 pm

Suppose most slaves to a point , our lives are controlled by the few that have all the wealth , the authority’s can tap into our texts , emails , phone calls they are looking at our search engines , you get a mortgage you don’t own nothing , just owe more money that you borrowed, if you don’t pay it your on the streets , you vote for a prime minster to run the country , they tell everyone what they going to do ,to help people that on low wages , all they do is help the poeple that stinking rich to get richer and the poor get poorer , millions are slaves to the very few in this world that are very corrupt
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Guest » Thu May 03, 2018 5:37 pm

Markey mark wrote:Suppose most slaves to a point , our lives are controlled by the few that have all the wealth , the authority’s can tap into our texts , emails , phone calls they are looking at our search engines , you get a mortgage you don’t own nothing , just owe more money that you borrowed, if you don’t pay it your on the streets , you vote for a prime minster to run the country , they tell everyone what they going to do ,to help people that on low wages , all they do is help the poeple that stinking rich to get richer and the poor get poorer , millions are slaves to the very few in this world that are very corrupt


you're corrupt yourself, so quit whining.
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Avon Barksdale » Thu May 03, 2018 5:37 pm

Trapper John wrote:
You say that as if it should be anathema to me? quite the contrary, all human life matters not just black or white. I can also thank you for accepting that I have nothing to apologise for in regards black slavery. I had no ancestors owning plantations, I had no ancestors taking or using slaves, my ancestors were up chimneys at the age of seven at about the same time as others were picking cotton in the fields of Virginia.

I was hoping for a bit of compo myself, for the trails and tribulations my ancestors went through it's left me a depressed wreck just thinking about it all the time.

"As you have helpfully pointed out the freed slaves were mostly left to fend from themselves in a hostile environment" Happy to do so too. It's something that needs drumming into the cunts who have these lofty ideals, you can't just come up with these great ideas that sound all high and noble and when you have got your way, sail off into the sunset leaving a trail of death and destruction in your wake.


I'm not even frontin'. I never had you down as someone who had sympathy with BLM but you are more progressive than some middle class people I know.

I think demanding apologies from individuals is a bit silly and I haven't heard anyone go there (although there may be some one the fringe who may do) but a recognition of the economic prosperity which flowed from slavery, where it flowed to, the consequences of that enrichment and the lasting impact is a worthy discussion.

At the heart of this is the exploitation of the have nots by the powerful - a story as old as time and why we, as free individuals, must always be questioning where power is concentrating and how it is being abused.
Last edited by Avon Barksdale on Thu May 03, 2018 5:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Trapper John » Thu May 03, 2018 5:38 pm

Markey mark wrote:Suppose most slaves to a point , our lives are controlled by the few that have all the wealth , the authority’s can tap into our texts , emails , phone calls they are looking at our search engines , you get a mortgage you don’t own nothing , just owe more money that you borrowed, if you don’t pay it your on the streets , you vote for a prime minster to run the country , they tell everyone what they going to do ,to help people that on low wages , all they do is help the poeple that stinking rich to get richer and the poor get poorer , millions are slaves to the very few in this world that are very corrupt


We are all slaves Markey, but some think that if they haven't got chains around their legs and get a whipping every day, that they aren't.
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Markey mark » Thu May 03, 2018 5:43 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:The civil war wasn’t just about abolishing slavery, it was about distributing the southern wealth. There was so much more politics involved than the slavery argument. But it’s more romantic for Americans to kid themselves that it was only about emancipation.


On the contrary it's not ordinary Americans who do that, it is the liberal elite and social warriors who call the civil war the war to end slavery, they shout down anyone who suggests otherwise, like they do.


Right. So when the Republican Party say "We freed the slaves, aren't we great!" the answer is "no." When the Democrats proclaim "We are the party of emancipation, aren't we great" the answer is...also "no". Why because the slave trade was exactly that, a trade. What flows from trade? Money and power.

As you have helpfully pointed out the freed slaves were mostly left to fend from themselves in a hostile environment (topical no?) die in poverty and from disease. Were they ever compensated for the labour that had been extracted from them through force and brutalisation? No. It was the former slave owners who were compensated.

So, we have one group and community who benefited greatly (white slave holders) from the trade of treating other people (black slaves) as property. The white group accrued all the benefits that accrued at that time and over the course of time from that staggering economic boost. The black group were never rewarded for their labour or the disadvantageous position they suffered.

I don't think an apology suffices in that situation. I think some sort of reparations might do though. Now, it would clearly prove unworkable to have a direct compensation scheme for the ancestors of freed slaves and loss may be considered too remote. So what to do?

I know. Maybe some sort of affirmative action might help.

Thanks for helping to make the case for BLM so well TJ!





There was thousands of black slave traders , and many become very rich in doing so , in the states big percentage of free blacks had slaves , in Africa hundred of thousands of blacks made a fortune enslaveing their neighbours and sold on to white or black slave traders in many parts of the world , but everyone just Blames whites for slavery ,
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Re: 400 Years Of Slavery - That Sounds Like A Choice?

Postby Avon Barksdale » Thu May 03, 2018 5:48 pm

Markey mark wrote:
Avon Barksdale wrote:
Trapper John wrote:
Lady Murasaki wrote:The civil war wasn’t just about abolishing slavery, it was about distributing the southern wealth. There was so much more politics involved than the slavery argument. But it’s more romantic for Americans to kid themselves that it was only about emancipation.


On the contrary it's not ordinary Americans who do that, it is the liberal elite and social warriors who call the civil war the war to end slavery, they shout down anyone who suggests otherwise, like they do.


Right. So when the Republican Party say "We freed the slaves, aren't we great!" the answer is "no." When the Democrats proclaim "We are the party of emancipation, aren't we great" the answer is...also "no". Why because the slave trade was exactly that, a trade. What flows from trade? Money and power.

As you have helpfully pointed out the freed slaves were mostly left to fend from themselves in a hostile environment (topical no?) die in poverty and from disease. Were they ever compensated for the labour that had been extracted from them through force and brutalisation? No. It was the former slave owners who were compensated.

So, we have one group and community who benefited greatly (white slave holders) from the trade of treating other people (black slaves) as property. The white group accrued all the benefits that accrued at that time and over the course of time from that staggering economic boost. The black group were never rewarded for their labour or the disadvantageous position they suffered.

I don't think an apology suffices in that situation. I think some sort of reparations might do though. Now, it would clearly prove unworkable to have a direct compensation scheme for the ancestors of freed slaves and loss may be considered too remote. So what to do?

I know. Maybe some sort of affirmative action might help.

Thanks for helping to make the case for BLM so well TJ!





There was thousands of black slave traders , and many become very rich in doing so , in the states big percentage of free blacks had slaves , in Africa hundred of thousands of blacks made a fortune enslaveing their neighbours and sold on to white or black slave traders in many parts of the world , but everyone just Blames whites for slavery ,


Yes, because I live in the West and therefore that is my focus and also the number of black slave holders was nowhere near the level of white slave holders. The exception does not prove the rule.
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