The £10 packet of cigarettes.

A right load of bollocks...

Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby jra » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:19 am

McAz wrote:
jra wrote:
LordRaven wrote:We smokers are a dying breed.


Good one.

Smokers are a nice little bunsen for the government, but also have to pretend they want people to stop. The problem in the future is that because cigarettes are so loaded with tax, the government are going to have to recover the lost income in other ways.

Not really - there is plenty of evidence to support the belief that high pricing acts as an incentive to quit.


I don't believe I said otherwise.
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby jra » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:24 am

LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:
jra wrote:
LordRaven wrote:We smokers are a dying breed.


Good one.

Smokers are a nice little bunsen for the government, but also have to pretend they want people to stop. The problem in the future is that because cigarettes are so loaded with tax, the government are going to have to recover the lost income in other ways.

Not really - there is plenty of evidence to support the belief that high pricing acts as an incentive to quit.


True, but I agree that the tax returns are good for government and if we all quit they'd have to make it up somewhere else.
Perhaps they'll tax "time online" :smilin:


The government will tax just about everything if they can get away with it.

There is a place in town that sells cigarettes for £3-50 under the counter. Now obviously they are not going to sell them at a loss, so that gives you an idea how much tax there is on duty/tax paid cigarettes.
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby McAz » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:28 am

LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:
jra wrote:
LordRaven wrote:We smokers are a dying breed.


Good one.

Smokers are a nice little bunsen for the government, but also have to pretend they want people to stop. The problem in the future is that because cigarettes are so loaded with tax, the government are going to have to recover the lost income in other ways.

Not really - there is plenty of evidence to support the belief that high pricing acts as an incentive to quit.


True, but I agree that the tax returns are good for government and if we all quit they'd have to make it up somewhere else.
Perhaps they'll tax "time online" :smilin:

The tobacco industry claims that the government "makes" about £9 billion per annum from tobacco tax.
The health "industry" says the annual burden that smoking places on the NHS is up to £6billion.
So on the face of it you are correct. But...

Smokers die earlier and dead people pay no tax at all. :yikes:
On the other hand that saves in pension costs. :twirl:

So let's use a BMJ study to clarify things:

Conclusions: Smoking was associated with a moderate decrease in healthcare costs, and a marked decrease in pension costs due to increased mortality. However, when a monetary value for life years lost was taken into account, the beneficial net effect of non-smoking to society was about €70 000 per individual.
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby McAz » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:33 am

jra wrote:
McAz wrote:
jra wrote:
LordRaven wrote:We smokers are a dying breed.


Good one.

Smokers are a nice little bunsen for the government, but also have to pretend they want people to stop. The problem in the future is that because cigarettes are so loaded with tax, the government are going to have to recover the lost income in other ways.

Not really - there is plenty of evidence to support the belief that high pricing acts as an incentive to quit.


I don't believe I said otherwise.


Response to BiB, "Not really - there is plenty of evidence to support the belief that high pricing acts as an incentive to quit".

Corollary: The gov't's motive is health not profit.
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby LordRaven » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:47 am

jra wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:
jra wrote:
LordRaven wrote:We smokers are a dying breed.


Good one.

Smokers are a nice little bunsen for the government, but also have to pretend they want people to stop. The problem in the future is that because cigarettes are so loaded with tax, the government are going to have to recover the lost income in other ways.

Not really - there is plenty of evidence to support the belief that high pricing acts as an incentive to quit.


True, but I agree that the tax returns are good for government and if we all quit they'd have to make it up somewhere else.
Perhaps they'll tax "time online" :smilin:


The government will tax just about everything if they can get away with it.

There is a place in town that sells cigarettes for £3-50 under the counter. Now obviously they are not going to sell them at a loss, so that gives you an idea how much tax there is on duty/tax paid cigarettes.

Millions of fake cigarettes are entering the UK and undermining efforts to cut smoking, councils have warned.

Herefordshire, Lincolnshire and Durham county councils in 2018 found illegal stashes of cigarettes behind shop walls, in sweet boxes and toilets.

Fake or "bootlegged" tobacco products are sold on the black market to avoid paying duty, the Local Government Association (LGA) said.

The illegal trade diverts £2.1bn a year in tax from HM Revenue and Customs.

In one case, Peterborough man Karwan Salim Ahamed was sentenced last month after using fake Facebook profiles to sell illegal cigarettes on the social media site's "Lincolnshire + Boston + Spalding + Skegness + Sleaford + Kirton + Heckington etc" group.

Mr Ahamed was ordered to do 200 hours community service and pay £5,000 in costs.

The LGA, which represents 370 councils in England and Wales, is calling on the government to increase fines and penalties for those found guilty of trading in fake or tax-free cigarettes and tobacco.

In another sentencing in Durham Crown Court last week, a 72-year-old man was ordered to pay a £35,000 fine after he tried to sell one box of 20 Brass cigarettes for £3.50 in a sting operation. He was caught with more than 100,000 illegal cigarettes.
In a separate case in Herefordshire, about 81,000 illegal cigarettes were seized from three shops in December. Officers uncovered remote controlled hydraulic hiding places, full of illegal tobacco, in the walls and floors of the shops.

Trading standards officers have previously found illegal hauls hidden in toilet cisterns, in boxes of sweets, behind extractor fans and in ceiling lights.

Signs of a fake
Fake or counterfeit cigarettes are made to look like well-known UK brands, but typically have foreign health advisories without picture warnings on the packaging.

"Non-duty paid" or bootlegged cigarettes are UK brands usually brought into the country from abroad and sold illegally.

Cigarettes and tobacco bought at duty-free shops are for personal use only.

Simon Blackburn, chairman of the LGA's Safer and Stronger Communities Board, said: "The sale of cheap, illegal tobacco by rogue traders in shops, private homes and through social media is funding organised criminal gangs and damaging legitimate traders, as well as making it easier for young people to get hooked on smoking, which undermines councils' efforts to help people quit.

"No cigarette is good for you, but fake cigarettes contain even higher levels of cancer-causing toxins than standard cigarettes, so people should think twice about buying them."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47004388
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby McAz » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:52 am

LordRaven wrote:"No cigarette is good for you, but fake cigarettes contain even higher levels of cancer-causing toxins than standard cigarettes, so people should think twice about buying them."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47004388

Well, lord love a duck, I didn't know that - and I may have fallen foul of cheap hooky stuff if I hadn't already given up. :smilin:

Time for you to give up too, Raven. :thumbsup:
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby LordRaven » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:01 pm

McAz wrote:
LordRaven wrote:"No cigarette is good for you, but fake cigarettes contain even higher levels of cancer-causing toxins than standard cigarettes, so people should think twice about buying them."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47004388

Well, lord love a duck, I didn't know that - and I may have fallen foul of cheap hooky stuff if I hadn't already given up. :smilin:

Time for you to give up too, Raven. :thumbsup:


You're right, I should but old habits die hard.

I must admit that the last vape I had worked really well, puffing on that cut my cigarette smoking down to a third.

I will buy one soon.
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby McAz » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:03 pm

LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:
LordRaven wrote:"No cigarette is good for you, but fake cigarettes contain even higher levels of cancer-causing toxins than standard cigarettes, so people should think twice about buying them."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47004388

Well, lord love a duck, I didn't know that - and I may have fallen foul of cheap hooky stuff if I hadn't already given up. :smilin:

Time for you to give up too, Raven. :thumbsup:


You're right, I should but old habits die hard.

I must admit that the last vape I had worked really well, puffing on that cut my cigarette smoking down to a third.

I will buy one soon.


Good man. :thumbsup:
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby jra » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:12 pm

LordRaven wrote:
jra wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
True, but I agree that the tax returns are good for government and if we all quit they'd have to make it up somewhere else.
Perhaps they'll tax "time online" :smilin:


The government will tax just about everything if they can get away with it.

There is a place in town that sells cigarettes for £3-50 under the counter. Now obviously they are not going to sell them at a loss, so that gives you an idea how much tax there is on duty/tax paid cigarettes.

Millions of fake cigarettes are entering the UK and undermining efforts to cut smoking, councils have warned.

Herefordshire, Lincolnshire and Durham county councils in 2018 found illegal stashes of cigarettes behind shop walls, in sweet boxes and toilets.

Fake or "bootlegged" tobacco products are sold on the black market to avoid paying duty, the Local Government Association (LGA) said.

The illegal trade diverts £2.1bn a year in tax from HM Revenue and Customs.

In one case, Peterborough man Karwan Salim Ahamed was sentenced last month after using fake Facebook profiles to sell illegal cigarettes on the social media site's "Lincolnshire + Boston + Spalding + Skegness + Sleaford + Kirton + Heckington etc" group.

Mr Ahamed was ordered to do 200 hours community service and pay £5,000 in costs.

The LGA, which represents 370 councils in England and Wales, is calling on the government to increase fines and penalties for those found guilty of trading in fake or tax-free cigarettes and tobacco.

In another sentencing in Durham Crown Court last week, a 72-year-old man was ordered to pay a £35,000 fine after he tried to sell one box of 20 Brass cigarettes for £3.50 in a sting operation. He was caught with more than 100,000 illegal cigarettes.
In a separate case in Herefordshire, about 81,000 illegal cigarettes were seized from three shops in December. Officers uncovered remote controlled hydraulic hiding places, full of illegal tobacco, in the walls and floors of the shops.

Trading standards officers have previously found illegal hauls hidden in toilet cisterns, in boxes of sweets, behind extractor fans and in ceiling lights.

Signs of a fake
Fake or counterfeit cigarettes are made to look like well-known UK brands, but typically have foreign health advisories without picture warnings on the packaging.

"Non-duty paid" or bootlegged cigarettes are UK brands usually brought into the country from abroad and sold illegally.

Cigarettes and tobacco bought at duty-free shops are for personal use only.

Simon Blackburn, chairman of the LGA's Safer and Stronger Communities Board, said: "The sale of cheap, illegal tobacco by rogue traders in shops, private homes and through social media is funding organised criminal gangs and damaging legitimate traders, as well as making it easier for young people to get hooked on smoking, which undermines councils' efforts to help people quit.

"No cigarette is good for you, but fake cigarettes contain even higher levels of cancer-causing toxins than standard cigarettes, so people should think twice about buying them."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47004388


Like with all drugs, whatever the government does, somebody will find a way around it and/or be prepared to take the risks. Look at the cocaine/heroin problem we have now. No matter how many people get arrested, there are others willing to take their place. It's essentially a battle which can't be won by the government.
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby LordRaven » Sat Aug 10, 2019 12:25 pm

jra wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
jra wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
True, but I agree that the tax returns are good for government and if we all quit they'd have to make it up somewhere else.
Perhaps they'll tax "time online" :smilin:


The government will tax just about everything if they can get away with it.

There is a place in town that sells cigarettes for £3-50 under the counter. Now obviously they are not going to sell them at a loss, so that gives you an idea how much tax there is on duty/tax paid cigarettes.

Millions of fake cigarettes are entering the UK and undermining efforts to cut smoking, councils have warned.

Herefordshire, Lincolnshire and Durham county councils in 2018 found illegal stashes of cigarettes behind shop walls, in sweet boxes and toilets.

Fake or "bootlegged" tobacco products are sold on the black market to avoid paying duty, the Local Government Association (LGA) said.

The illegal trade diverts £2.1bn a year in tax from HM Revenue and Customs.

In one case, Peterborough man Karwan Salim Ahamed was sentenced last month after using fake Facebook profiles to sell illegal cigarettes on the social media site's "Lincolnshire + Boston + Spalding + Skegness + Sleaford + Kirton + Heckington etc" group.

Mr Ahamed was ordered to do 200 hours community service and pay £5,000 in costs.

The LGA, which represents 370 councils in England and Wales, is calling on the government to increase fines and penalties for those found guilty of trading in fake or tax-free cigarettes and tobacco.

In another sentencing in Durham Crown Court last week, a 72-year-old man was ordered to pay a £35,000 fine after he tried to sell one box of 20 Brass cigarettes for £3.50 in a sting operation. He was caught with more than 100,000 illegal cigarettes.
In a separate case in Herefordshire, about 81,000 illegal cigarettes were seized from three shops in December. Officers uncovered remote controlled hydraulic hiding places, full of illegal tobacco, in the walls and floors of the shops.

Trading standards officers have previously found illegal hauls hidden in toilet cisterns, in boxes of sweets, behind extractor fans and in ceiling lights.

Signs of a fake
Fake or counterfeit cigarettes are made to look like well-known UK brands, but typically have foreign health advisories without picture warnings on the packaging.

"Non-duty paid" or bootlegged cigarettes are UK brands usually brought into the country from abroad and sold illegally.

Cigarettes and tobacco bought at duty-free shops are for personal use only.

Simon Blackburn, chairman of the LGA's Safer and Stronger Communities Board, said: "The sale of cheap, illegal tobacco by rogue traders in shops, private homes and through social media is funding organised criminal gangs and damaging legitimate traders, as well as making it easier for young people to get hooked on smoking, which undermines councils' efforts to help people quit.

"No cigarette is good for you, but fake cigarettes contain even higher levels of cancer-causing toxins than standard cigarettes, so people should think twice about buying them."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47004388


Like with all drugs, whatever the government does, somebody will find a way around it and/or be prepared to take the risks. Look at the cocaine/heroin problem we have now. No matter how many people get arrested, there are others willing to take their place. It's essentially a battle which can't be won by the government.

Very true.
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby LordRaven » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:23 am

My next door neighbour just returned with 400 Benson & Hedges Gold for me in the original gold packaging with "For Duty Free Sale Only" and he asked only £25 for the lot :yikes:
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby BUDGIE » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:26 am

LordRaven wrote:My next door neighbour just returned with 400 Benson & Hedges Gold for me in the original gold packaging with "For Duty Free Sale Only" and he asked only £25 for the lot :yikes:


Sure that's something you want to advertise Lordy??? :ooer:
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby BUDGIE » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:30 am

I'll tell you what, up here in Scotland the drink prices are getting out of order. The smokes?? I don't understand why you'd pay cash for something that does you no good whatsoever.

And before someone says "beer's like that!" - not in moderation it's not. It raises your HDL levels, lets you relax.. gives you an excuse to make a c**t of yourself.... shag horrors etc.

Pint of Coors in the Toby Jug pub - £4.50. Stalkers welcome to go in there and check for themselves. This is for a working class pub that had its windows panned in by cowardly Tims not so long ago. Upmarket it is not.

It's getting ridiculous to go have a night out with mates and end up spending £100 for about 6 hours of fun. JRA could rent a pro for that!!!!
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby Guest » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:41 am

BUDGIE wrote:I'll tell you what, up here in Scotland the drink prices are getting out of order. The smokes?? I don't understand why you'd pay cash for something that does you no good whatsoever.

And before someone says "beer's like that!" - not in moderation it's not. It raises your HDL levels, lets you relax.. gives you an excuse to make a c**t of yourself.... shag horrors etc.

Pint of Coors in the Toby Jug pub - £4.50. Stalkers welcome to go in there and check for themselves. This is for a working class pub that had its windows panned in by cowardly Tims not so long ago. Upmarket it is not.

It's getting ridiculous to go have a night out with mates and end up spending £100 for about 6 hours of fun. JRA could rent a pro for that!!!!



So you have shagged some horrors then? :ooer:
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Re: The £10 packet of cigarettes.

Postby LordRaven » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:43 am

BUDGIE wrote:
LordRaven wrote:My next door neighbour just returned with 400 Benson & Hedges Gold for me in the original gold packaging with "For Duty Free Sale Only" and he asked only £25 for the lot :yikes:


Sure that's something you want to advertise Lordy??? :ooer:


Yes! He bought them for himself but having bought a vape himself which he used a lot on holiday he opened one packet and had one cigarette and realised he preferred his vape. Bonus! He just wanted to get rid of them :thumbsup:
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