London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

A right load of bollocks...

Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby LordRaven » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:32 pm

McAz wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:Points 3 to 5 are shaky.


Not according to eye witness statements

None of these a terrorist make.

Attending courses.
Murdering people.
Carrying knives.
Wearing fake suicide vests (or anything else).
Being shot and killed
Scotland Yard releasing a statement calling it a terror attack (which they didn't, they said "treating it as a terrorist attack" at the time).

Terrorism is the pursuance of violence for political ends.


You are entitled to a view that no-one in authority and those there at the time hold.

This link has a video of him leaving the venue, being chased and tackled and the arrival of the old bill and them shouting about a bomb telling people to clear off...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50594810
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby Rolluplostinspace » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:38 pm

Why did he attend that meeting before going off to martyr his little self?
What happened in that meeting are we being told?
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby HobbitFeet » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:43 pm

LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:Points 3 to 5 are shaky.


Not according to eye witness statements

None of these a terrorist make.

Attending courses.
Murdering people.
Carrying knives.
Wearing fake suicide vests (or anything else).
Being shot and killed
Scotland Yard releasing a statement calling it a terror attack (which they didn't, they said "treating it as a terrorist attack" at the time).

Terrorism is the pursuance of violence for political ends.


You are entitled to a view that no-one in authority and those there at the time hold.

This link has a video of him leaving the venue, being chased and tackled and the arrival of the old bill and them shouting about a bomb telling people to clear off...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50594810



sorry, I'm not sure I'm understanding this right, are you saying that everybody in authority and everybody there at the time believes that this was a terorist attack, without exception?

not that it really matters how it is categorised, the victims are still dead and no matter how we dehumanise the murderer he's still dead too

that he was a convicted terrorist isn't under dispute, but the fact that he attacked people personally known to him would lead me away from concluding that this was a terrorist attack - but as I said, the label it is given is irrelevant to the outcome

it does seem however that the terrorist attack label is much more important to some than others
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby McAz » Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:45 pm

LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:
LordRaven wrote:
McAz wrote:Points 3 to 5 are shaky.


Not according to eye witness statements

None of these a terrorist make.

Attending courses.
Murdering people.
Carrying knives.
Wearing fake suicide vests (or anything else).
Being shot and killed
Scotland Yard releasing a statement calling it a terror attack (which they didn't, they said "treating it as a terrorist attack" at the time).

Terrorism is the pursuance of violence for political ends.


You are entitled to a view that no-one in authority and those there at the time hold.

This link has a video of him leaving the venue, being chased and tackled and the arrival of the old bill and them shouting about a bomb telling people to clear off...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50594810


I don't hold a view one way or the other - I don't know his political motivation or if he had one. I'm merely pointing out that terrorism is the pursuance of violence for political ends - and next to nothing to do with the things you listed.
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby Red Okktober » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:28 pm

HobbitFeet wrote:sorry, I'm not sure I'm understanding this right, are you saying that everybody in authority and everybody there at the time believes that this was a terorist attack, without exception?

not that it really matters how it is categorised, the victims are still dead and no matter how we dehumanise the murderer he's still dead too

that he was a convicted terrorist isn't under dispute, but the fact that he attacked people personally known to him would lead me away from concluding that this was a terrorist attack - but as I said, the label it is given is irrelevant to the outcome

it does seem however that the terrorist attack label is much more important to some than others



Of course, if a convicted terrorist goes on to commit more crimes it doesn't always follow that those crimes are terror related as well.

However, wearing a suicide vest, attacking multiple victims, and being caught carrying two bloodied knives and a gun, kind of indicates that it was.

Do you think it might have been a domestic or a crime of passion?
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby Stooo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:33 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:Forget Stooo for a moment Raven he's quite vallianty got himself in to0 deep to turn around now .... he will still fight thinking for some reason they are left of centre.


I'm probably going to have to tactically vote UKLab mate :wink:
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby Stooo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:34 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
HobbitFeet wrote:sorry, I'm not sure I'm understanding this right, are you saying that everybody in authority and everybody there at the time believes that this was a terorist attack, without exception?

not that it really matters how it is categorised, the victims are still dead and no matter how we dehumanise the murderer he's still dead too

that he was a convicted terrorist isn't under dispute, but the fact that he attacked people personally known to him would lead me away from concluding that this was a terrorist attack - but as I said, the label it is given is irrelevant to the outcome

it does seem however that the terrorist attack label is much more important to some than others



Of course, if a convicted terrorist goes on to commit more crimes it doesn't always follow that those crimes are terror related as well.

However, wearing a suicide vest, attacking multiple victims, and being caught carrying two bloodied knives and a gun, kind of indicates that it was.

Do you think it might have been a domestic or a crime of passion?


Are you Alan Moore IRL? :yikes:
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby Red Okktober » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:43 pm

No

Whoever he is.

You remind a bit of Stoaty - he was down with the kids as well - and would drop random names into conversation that no one else had heard of.
Last edited by Red Okktober on Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby Red Okktober » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:44 pm

Do think it was a terrorist attack Stooo?
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby xtras1 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:53 pm

McAz wrote:terrorism
/ˈtɛrərɪzəm/

the use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.






The current UK definition of terrorism is given in the Terrorism Act 2006.


In the UK we define terrorism as a violent action that:

Endangers a person’s life, other than that of the person committing the action

Involves serious violence against a person
Causes serious damage to property

Creates a serious risk to the public’s health and safety

Interferes with or seriously disrupts an electronic system
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby McAz » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:14 pm

xtras1 wrote:
McAz wrote:terrorism
/ˈtɛrərɪzəm/

the use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.






The current UK definition of terrorism is given in the Terrorism Act 2006.


In the UK we define terrorism as a violent action that:

Endangers a person’s life, other than that of the person committing the action

Involves serious violence against a person
Causes serious damage to property

Creates a serious risk to the public’s health and safety

Interferes with or seriously disrupts an electronic system

The CPS define terrorism for the purpose of that act as follows:

Terrorism is the use or threat of action, both in and outside of the UK, designed to influence any international government organisation or to intimidate the public. It must also be for the purpose of advancing a political, religious, racial or ideological cause


If there was not a political aspect then there would be nothing to distinguish such a crime from an ordinary act of barbarism.
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby Stooo » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:17 pm

Red Okktober wrote:No

Whoever he is.

You remind a bit of Stoaty - he was down with the kids as well - and would drop random names into conversation that no one else had heard of.


It's a reference to a comic that I used to read in the 70's, I didn't give it that much thought :dunno:
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby LordRaven » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:39 pm

Having caused a lot of Terror, judging by the looks on the faces of the civilian population on the day, and noting that two people got stabbed to death and three others got knifed plus the attire and the weaponry worn by the assailant I cannot think this was anything else but a terrorist attack.
I don't find it odd that he opted to slaughter two post-graduates whom he most likely had never had dealings with prior to killing them because terrorists don't care who they kill.
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby Fletch » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:56 pm

Rolluplostinspace wrote:Why did he attend that meeting before going off to martyr his little self?
What happened in that meeting are we being told?


What happened at lunch time?

Who did he meet?

I have read he came back from the lunch break (or a break) and went off on one?

Did he have this belt on the whole time and why wasn't it spotted if he did?

Why no media pics of this 'suicide belt' they usually do?

:dunno:
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Re: London Bridge Incident -Breaking news

Postby LordRaven » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:58 pm

Fletch wrote:
Rolluplostinspace wrote:Why did he attend that meeting before going off to martyr his little self?
What happened in that meeting are we being told?


What happened at lunch time?

Who did he meet?

I have read he came back from the lunch break (or a break) and went off on one?

Did he have this belt on the whole time and why wasn't it spotted if he did?

Why no media pics of this 'suicide belt' they usually do?

:dunno:


Oh do shut up! Stop trying to make excuses for a dead terrorist :shake head: :hand:
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