Nurse Lucy Letby guilty of murdering seven babies

[xtras1]

I watched the Panorama programme, so many times she could have been stopped !

That poor consultant his face in pain he tried so hard.

[LordRaven]

I watched the Panorama programme, so many times she could have been stopped !

That poor consultant his face in pain he tried so hard.

Having read a lot on this, I too find it all very disturbing that she was allowed to continue with so many flags waved.

[xtras1]

I watched the Panorama programme, so many times she could have been stopped !

That poor consultant his face in pain he tried so hard.

Having read a lot on this, I too find it all very disturbing that she was allowed to continue with so many flags waved.

As I’ve said before if you have Netflix, watch painkillers about Charlie Cullen, he just got passed around hospital to hospital!

[Cactus Jack]

Let’s start with an unfortunate reality.

Most NHS trusts have seen a steady decline in their performance since 2010, this can be measured across a number of metrics but there is absolutely no doubt that in terms of treatment outcomes, patient satisfaction, quality of life, staff turnover, essentially every metric that should be used other than the one that is – how much money did we ‘save’ – things have gotten steadily worse.

Excess deaths show up on a spreadsheet as a number, they could be due to a number of factors but when standards are falling generally and a NHS Trust board, who are mostly non-medical management staff appointed by the government to translate government policy into trust practice, has neither the medical knowledge nor the data literacy to be able to know what they are looking at.

The easiest explanation, and on that has the advantage of always being plausible, is that ‘hotspots’ happen quite naturally and there is no explanation for how and why – there will be a sudden cluster of strokes, heart attacks or nasty rashes under the left arm because, there just is and we don’t know why.

When a hospital trust knows that government policy is a likely driver of the general fall in standards and that led to an inexperienced nurse being inadequately supervised which may have, entirely without malice on her part and solely because of management failures, led to a spike in deaths they’re not going to look too closely. “Angel of Mercy” killers are fortunately extremely rare and a more likely explanation – to you as a manager ‘investigating’ a series of deaths linked to a single nurse – is that it was management failure not malicious actions that caused the death.

So when you have a situation where there is an ostensibly caring nurse, seemingly feeling very vulnerable and personally responsible for deaths caused by – as far as you are aware – policy and management failures that you and the government of the day want to cover up; you end up supporting that nurse. In your mind’s eye you see Lucy Letby leaving the profession and telling someone in the press that babies died because she put onto the ward without enough training, support or supervision and – of course – she feels totally responsible for all those deaths.

So instead of following through and looking deeper the managers, who as a rule lack the necessary data literacy to see how big the problem is, brush it under the carpet and when processed in the ways necessary to maintain patient anonymity the one ward in on hospital in one NHS trust becomes and outlier for which there is no explanation.

It would be better if that wasn’t how it worked. It would be better if the Department of Health had a more coherent way of data collection and every Trust was essentially allowed to collect data in whatever way it chooses, but that isn’t the way things have moved since 2010.

[Cactus Jack]

I don't know how else to this so I'm going to be reporting my own message - could we move this to the news section

[LordRaven]

I don't know how else to this so I'm going to be reporting my own message - could we move this to the news section

TL/DR, good idea!

[Junglejayne]

I don't know how else to this so I'm going to be reporting my own message - could we move this to the news section

TL/DR, good idea!

I read it, thought it was interesting.

[HobbitFeet]

I don't know how else to this so I'm going to be reporting my own message - could we move this to the news section

TL/DR, good idea!

I read it, thought it was interesting.

yes I agree and to some degree echoes my experience of working in the NHS

[LordRaven]

I’m still baffled by this case, it’s a real worry that many senior people raised concerns, and were ordered to apologise.

[HobbitFeet]

I’m still baffled by this case, it’s a real worry that many senior people raised concerns, and were ordered to apologise.

Read CJ's post, that goes some way towards explaining the situation

There is also a fundamental belief that nurses are 'good' people, which of course isn't always true, at the end of the day it is a paying job with good prospects and reliable employment and as such will attract some people who are actually entirely unsuitable, the selection process weeds most unsuitable applicants out way before they reach the wards, but it isn't an infallible system

[LordRaven]

I’m still baffled by this case, it’s a real worry that many senior people raised concerns, and were ordered to apologise.

Read CJ's post, that goes some way towards explaining the situation

There is also a fundamental belief that nurses are 'good' people, which of course isn't always true, at the end of the day it is a paying job with good prospects and reliable employment and as such will attract some people who are actually entirely unsuitable, the selection process weeds most unsuitable applicants out way before they reach the wards, but it isn't an infallible system

As in all jobs, but nursing is surly held to a higher standard.
With all my medical issues I am ever so grateful to the NHS.0
I meet people from all over the world who take care us all.
I always feel comfortable, knowing I’m in safe hands.
I’m therefore very disturbed by this case.
Like Shipman, it’s truly worrying.

[Holly]

I’m still baffled by this case, it’s a real worry that many senior people raised concerns, and were ordered to apologise.

Read CJ's post, that goes some way towards explaining the situation

There is also a fundamental belief that nurses are 'good' people, which of course isn't always true, at the end of the day it is a paying job with good prospects and reliable employment and as such will attract some people who are actually entirely unsuitable, the selection process weeds most unsuitable applicants out way before they reach the wards, but it isn't an infallible system

As in all jobs, but nursing is surly held to a higher standard.
With all my medical issues I am ever so grateful to the NHS.0
I meet people from all over the world who take care us all.
I always feel comfortable, knowing I’m in safe hands.
I’m therefore very disturbed by this case.
Like Shipman, it’s truly worrying.

Nutters show up in every occupation and walk of life.
They don't usually look like it.
We even have killer doctors.
Some of those people are just evils and get a thrill out of killing for what ever reason, others are mentally ill.

I can't be sure of course, but I think that nurse has a huge mental problem.
No excuse for what she has done of course, she would have known what she's doing is so wrong.

[LordRaven]

I’m still baffled by this case, it’s a real worry that many senior people raised concerns, and were ordered to apologise.

Read CJ's post, that goes some way towards explaining the situation

There is also a fundamental belief that nurses are 'good' people, which of course isn't always true, at the end of the day it is a paying job with good prospects and reliable employment and as such will attract some people who are actually entirely unsuitable, the selection process weeds most unsuitable applicants out way before they reach the wards, but it isn't an infallible system

As in all jobs, but nursing is surly held to a higher standard.
With all my medical issues I am ever so grateful to the NHS.0
I meet people from all over the world who take care us all.
I always feel comfortable, knowing I’m in safe hands.
I’m therefore very disturbed by this case.
Like Shipman, it’s truly worrying.

Nutters show up in every occupation and walk of life.
They don't usually look like it.
We even have killer doctors.
Some of those people are just evils and get a thrill out of killing for what ever reason, others are mentally ill.

I can't be sure of course, but I think that nurse has a huge mental problem.
No excuse for what she has done of course, she would have known what she's doing is so wrong.

So true Holly, just look at the megalomaniacs on here.

[Guest]

Whole life orders for each of the seven murders and six attempted murders. She will never be released from prison.

[Holly]

Whole life orders for each of the seven murders and six attempted murders. She will never be released from prison.

Absolutely.
Whether it's in prison or a mental hospital, she's just too dangerous to ever be let out again.