The Hillsborough Disaster.

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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby guest » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:40 pm

Garrett1 wrote:
Guest wrote:it's unforgivable that you and Maddog are continuing to blame them for it by using the actions of football thugs leading to the introduction of penned terraces in an attempt to troll.

.


Another one that can't fuckin read.

In my opinion the disgraceful behaviour of many football fans in that era contributed to this tragedy. Therefore fans were PARTLY to blame.

Stating a valid opinion is not trolling. Ignorant cunt.


The failure of the officials to adequately manage the event contributed wholly to this tragedy, the fans were NOT to blame for the circumstances behind it.

I suggest you read this article explaining why crowds can turn deadly. http://www.citylab.com/crime/2012/07/ph ... ters/2550/ This is what can happen when adequate controls are not put in place, the only people responsible for adequate controls are the people organising the event.

The officials knew that the penned in terraces had a capacity limit, they didn't adhere to it, they knew that to go over the capacity would create a crush at the front with deaths and injury the likely result, they ignored it. The penned in terraces were there for a reason, no one will dispute that, however, that does not excuse the actions of the police and other officials at the match in their failure to control the crowd, ensure the safety of the fans and prevent an incident such as this.

Your continued insistence in putting any of the blame onto the fans and victims at this match is trolling because the result of the inquest states otherwise.
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby ambient » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:26 pm

I would have though gate crashing an event without a ticket might have counted for some sort of culpability
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby Maddog » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:55 pm

guest wrote:
Garrett1 wrote:
Guest wrote:it's unforgivable that you and Maddog are continuing to blame them for it by using the actions of football thugs leading to the introduction of penned terraces in an attempt to troll.

.


Another one that can't fuckin read.

In my opinion the disgraceful behaviour of many football fans in that era contributed to this tragedy. Therefore fans were PARTLY to blame.

Stating a valid opinion is not trolling. Ignorant cunt.


The failure of the officials to adequately manage the event contributed wholly to this tragedy, the fans were NOT to blame for the circumstances behind it.

I suggest you read this article explaining why crowds can turn deadly. http://www.citylab.com/crime/2012/07/ph ... ters/2550/ This is what can happen when adequate controls are not put in place, the only people responsible for adequate controls are the people organising the event.

The officials knew that the penned in terraces had a capacity limit, they didn't adhere to it, they knew that to go over the capacity would create a crush at the front with deaths and injury the likely result, they ignored it. The penned in terraces were there for a reason, no one will dispute that, however, that does not excuse the actions of the police and other officials at the match in their failure to control the crowd, ensure the safety of the fans and prevent an incident such as this.

Your continued insistence in putting any of the blame onto the fans and victims at this match is trolling because the result of the inquest states otherwise.



I have been to hundreds of events with more people than this soccer game.

Never have seen a pen. Why were there pens?
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby Guest » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:59 pm

Maddog wrote:
guest wrote:
Garrett1 wrote:
Guest wrote:it's unforgivable that you and Maddog are continuing to blame them for it by using the actions of football thugs leading to the introduction of penned terraces in an attempt to troll.

.


Another one that can't fuckin read.

In my opinion the disgraceful behaviour of many football fans in that era contributed to this tragedy. Therefore fans were PARTLY to blame.

Stating a valid opinion is not trolling. Ignorant cunt.


The failure of the officials to adequately manage the event contributed wholly to this tragedy, the fans were NOT to blame for the circumstances behind it.

I suggest you read this article explaining why crowds can turn deadly. http://www.citylab.com/crime/2012/07/ph ... ters/2550/ This is what can happen when adequate controls are not put in place, the only people responsible for adequate controls are the people organising the event.

The officials knew that the penned in terraces had a capacity limit, they didn't adhere to it, they knew that to go over the capacity would create a crush at the front with deaths and injury the likely result, they ignored it. The penned in terraces were there for a reason, no one will dispute that, however, that does not excuse the actions of the police and other officials at the match in their failure to control the crowd, ensure the safety of the fans and prevent an incident such as this.

Your continued insistence in putting any of the blame onto the fans and victims at this match is trolling because the result of the inquest states otherwise.



I have been to hundreds of events with more people than this soccer game.

Never have seen a pen. Why were there pens?


They were just numbered segments of the ground for organisational purposes
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby McAz » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:03 pm

I haven't seen a pen either - but perhaps this plan of Hillsborough will help.

Image
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby ambient » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:33 pm

Guest wrote:
They were just numbered segments of the ground for organisational purposes


and fenced in with wire mesh to keep rival tribes from kicking each other to death
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby Cannydc » Sun May 01, 2016 2:40 pm

guest wrote:
Garrett1 wrote:
Guest wrote:it's unforgivable that you and Maddog are continuing to blame them for it by using the actions of football thugs leading to the introduction of penned terraces in an attempt to troll.

.


Another one that can't fuckin read.

In my opinion the disgraceful behaviour of many football fans in that era contributed to this tragedy. Therefore fans were PARTLY to blame.

Stating a valid opinion is not trolling. Ignorant cunt.


The failure of the officials to adequately manage the event contributed wholly to this tragedy, the fans were NOT to blame for the circumstances behind it.

I suggest you read this article explaining why crowds can turn deadly. http://www.citylab.com/crime/2012/07/ph ... ters/2550/ This is what can happen when adequate controls are not put in place, the only people responsible for adequate controls are the people organising the event.

The officials knew that the penned in terraces had a capacity limit, they didn't adhere to it, they knew that to go over the capacity would create a crush at the front with deaths and injury the likely result, they ignored it. The penned in terraces were there for a reason, no one will dispute that, however, that does not excuse the actions of the police and other officials at the match in their failure to control the crowd, ensure the safety of the fans and prevent an incident such as this.

Your continued insistence in putting any of the blame onto the fans and victims at this match is trolling because the result of the inquest states otherwise.


A very accurate post. I visited Hillsborough the following season to watch Sheff Weds play Spurs as a neutral. We sat in the main stand, but went to look at the Leppings Lane end. Your eye is instantly drawn to the downward sloping, funnel effect leading to the (too few) turnstiles. Given the late arrivals of many Liverpool fans that day caused by traffic problems, the crowding was almost sure to happen. The decision not to delay kick off was criminal. And finally, opening the gate and allowing a surge of people in was a disaster.

Most blame lies correctly at the feet of an inefficient, lazy police control room, and some with the stadium owners. And so it should.
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby Maddog » Sun May 01, 2016 7:34 pm

ambient wrote:
Guest wrote:
They were just numbered segments of the ground for organisational purposes


and fenced in with wire mesh to keep rival tribes from kicking each other to death



Sounds like a lovely way to spend the afternoon with your wife and children. :smilin:
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby McAz » Tue May 03, 2016 5:45 pm

"The deaths of more than 50 Liverpool football supporters at Hillsborough in 1989 was undeniably a greater tragedy than the single death...but that is no excuse for Liverpool's failure to acknowledge, even to this day, the part played in the disaster by drunken fans at the back of the crowd who mindlessly tried to fight their way into the ground that Saturday afternoon. The police became a convenient scapegoat, and the Sun newspaper a whipping-boy for daring, albeit in a tasteless fashion, to hint at the wider causes of the incident."

Boris Johnson 2004

------

"I'm very, very glad that this report does lay to rest the false allegation that was made at the time about the behaviour of those fans. I was very, very sorry in 2004 that the Spectator did carry an editorial that partially repeated those allegations, I apologised then and I apologise now. I do hope the families of the 96 victims will take some comfort from this report and that they can reach some sort of closure."

Boris Johnson 2012

------

“The families have been through an absolutely terrible time and they deserve the full sympathy of everyone in this country.”
[And now that I said how very, very sorry I am please vote to leave the EU so that I can become PM.] :Wiiiine!:

Boris Johnson 2016
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby Vicky » Tue May 03, 2016 6:58 pm

Talking of the Hillsborough Disaster..

Compare the banner the Everton fans had about it last week and how Rangers rivals treat the Ibrox Disaster.

Ibrox was vandalised again, last night.

Image

Image

:hand:
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby PinkSmurf » Tue May 03, 2016 11:09 pm

It's not just football crowds that are badly managed although I agree what happened at this match was terrible. I used to live in Ladbroke Grove and the crushing crowds at Notting Hill Carnival have been horrendous. I was actually scared while squashed in a badly managed crowd. If someone ever needs an ambulance I dread to think what would happen to them in the carnival. I saw someone very sick being carried through the crowd who couldn't move to let them through. Police on horseback were pushing the crowds back and people were unable to even turn around. I moved out of the area thank god as I'd got the keys to my new flat elsewhere. If violence breaks out & you can't move or get out of the way it's really frightening.
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby Spoony » Sun May 08, 2016 2:03 pm

Agree Pinksmurf, being carried along with a crowd with no control and no where to escape is FUCKING scary!

Glad this has finally concluded as it should've, disgusting that it took all those years though

There's a docu tonight on the Beeb 2 @ 21:00
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby Cannydc » Sun May 08, 2016 3:57 pm

Garrett1 wrote:
Lexi wrote:A young girl I know from our school days, was crushed at Hillsborough and her back was broken, she has been in a wheelchair ever since! She is not a 'hooligan' or 'drunken thug'! She is an innocent victim of police negligence and I'm so relieved for the families that they have finally gotten justice.


Christ! I get more sense out of my pet crow than some of you here.

Nobody is suggesting that the police were NOT negligent.


The point I, and it seems Maddog, are making is that football fans disgraceful behaviour around this time had become so bad that it was deemed necessary to keep them in pens to stop them trying to kill each other.

If they weren't penned in they wouldn't have been crushed in this way. Therefore the behaviour of PREVIOUS football fans lead to a policy of all fans having to be physically seperated at matches by being put in pens.

Therefore football "fans" hold some responsibility for this tragedy. Get it now Wutang etc?


I missed this post earlier - Garrett makes an entirely valid point. Indeed, the pens would not have been there (along with anti-missile nets at grounds I also attended, hundreds of police, body searches etc) without the utterly animalistic behaviour of some fans.

However, Garrett also misses one fact completely.

The pens were there, and had been for some time.

Police and stadium staff knew they were there, and their capacity.

And armed with this knowledge, the police still opened the gate to allow many hundreds already late for the game to surge in. Which makes them wholly culpable.
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby Vicky » Tue May 10, 2016 5:21 am

The Celtic fans were showing solidarity with the families of the victims of the Hillsborough Disaster on Saturday.

Image

It's a pity, they have no respect for the victims of the Ibrox Disaster.
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Re: The Hillsborough Disaster.

Postby Frank39 » Tue May 10, 2016 10:43 am

Maddog wrote:
ambient wrote:
Guest wrote:
They were just numbered segments of the ground for organisational purposes


and fenced in with wire mesh to keep rival tribes from kicking each other to death



Sounds like a lovely way to spend the afternoon with your wife and children. :smilin:



Unfortunately Maddog, that was de rigeur at soccer matches all over Europe in the 70s and 80s, it still is in places like Turkey and Ukraine, and to a lesser extent in Poland and of all places Italy.
You may be wistfully thinking of pleasant afternoons/evenings at Globe Life Park, watching Texas Rangers playing Arizona Diamondbacks, with beer, hot dogs, cotton candy, and corn dogs.
That wouldn't have worked in Britain, different mindset, a lot of "fans" hoped that their team won, but as long as they got a chance to smash someone's face in, the day wasn't wasted.
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