The Hillsborough Disaster.

[Garrett1]

Genuine question here, I have zero interest in football so know very little about this disaster.

I'm aware that the police etc have been found to have lied/covered up etc and should be held to account, but I'm puzzled as to how they have come to the conclusion that the fans are entirely innocent, not even partly to blame.

It appears that they crushed each other, surely if they had queued and entered in an orderly manner this would never have happened?

I repeat I'm not stirring or disrespecting the families of the dead, just curious.

Intelligent replies only please.

[Vicky]

Genuine question here, I have zero interest in football so know very little about this disaster.

I'm aware that the police etc have been found to have lied/covered up etc and should be held to account, but I'm puzzled as to how they have come to the conclusion that the fans are entirely innocent, not even partly to blame.

It appears that they crushed each other, surely if they had queued and entered in an orderly manner this would never have happened?

I repeat I'm not stirring or disrespecting the families of the dead, just curious.

Intelligent replies only please.

The police said the fans had forced they're way into the ground, they hadn't, the police opened the gates and allowed them into an area, that was already full.

The people at the front were crushed and couldn't get away.

The policeman who gave the order for the gate to be opened, lied and allowed the fans to be blamed.

Bernard Ingram who was Margaret Thatcher's private secretary, was one of many who blamed the fans.

He said the Disaster had been caused by "Tanked up yobs"

[Garrett1]

The police said the fans had forced they're way into the ground, they hadn't, the police opened the gates and allowed them into an area, that was already full.

The people at the front were crushed and couldn't get away.

The policeman who gave the order for the gate to be opened, lied and allowed the fans to be blamed.

Bernard Ingram who was Margaret Thatcher's private secretary, was one of many who blamed the fans.

He said the Disaster had been caused by "Tanked up yobs"

Thanks for the reply Victoria.

Once the gates were open, if the area was already full surely the fans must have pushed and forced their way into the limited space for people to get crushed, and therefore are partly responsible?

[McAz]

South Yorkshire Police chief suspended over Hillsborough



South Yorkshire Police chief constable David Crompton has been suspended following the Hillsborough inquests.
Jurors concluded the 96 victims of the 1989 disaster were unlawfully killed and there were police failings.

The PCC said: "The continuing criticism that has been directed at the Chief Constable and the eroding trust and confidence in South Yorkshire Police I have been left with no choice other than to suspend David Crompton from his duties.

Hours before his suspension, the force issued a statement which said the coroner, Sir John Goldring "ruled that to admit the previous 2012 apology by the Chief Constable into proceedings would be 'wrong' and 'highly prejudicial'."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36154201

Good!

[Maddog]

South Yorkshire Police chief suspended over Hillsborough



South Yorkshire Police chief constable David Crompton has been suspended following the Hillsborough inquests.
Jurors concluded the 96 victims of the 1989 disaster were unlawfully killed and there were police failings.

The PCC said: "The continuing criticism that has been directed at the Chief Constable and the eroding trust and confidence in South Yorkshire Police I have been left with no choice other than to suspend David Crompton from his duties.

Hours before his suspension, the force issued a statement which said the coroner, Sir John Goldring "ruled that to admit the previous 2012 apology by the Chief Constable into proceedings would be 'wrong' and 'highly prejudicial'."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36154201

Good!

He's probably getting paid the same to sit at home, and will of course draw his full pension. I'm sure he doesn't care one way or the other at this point.


I still can't wrap my head around people trampling each other at a sporting event unless cops pointed guns at people and forced them to keep moving when there was no where to go.

[McAz]

South Yorkshire Police chief suspended over Hillsborough



South Yorkshire Police chief constable David Crompton has been suspended following the Hillsborough inquests.
Jurors concluded the 96 victims of the 1989 disaster were unlawfully killed and there were police failings.

The PCC said: "The continuing criticism that has been directed at the Chief Constable and the eroding trust and confidence in South Yorkshire Police I have been left with no choice other than to suspend David Crompton from his duties.

Hours before his suspension, the force issued a statement which said the coroner, Sir John Goldring "ruled that to admit the previous 2012 apology by the Chief Constable into proceedings would be 'wrong' and 'highly prejudicial'."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36154201

Good!

He's probably getting paid the same to sit at home, and will of course draw his full pension. I'm sure he doesn't care one way or the other at this point.

I still can't wrap my head around people trampling each other at a sporting event unless cops pointed guns at people and forced them to keep moving when there was no where to go.

He's definitely getting paid the same to sit at home - that's the way it works - but at least he's not bringing further disrepute upon his force, and it sends a message to other senior cops that there is at least some measure of accountability.

As to how the disaster occurred, I cannot say - but a jury has weighed the evidence and found the police wanting - and that's good enough for me.

[Stooo]

I wonder if the families, will sue the police?

An inquest ruled Rangers were at fault for the Ibrox Disaster and most of the families sued them.

The Scousers are after compo?

[Guest]

I wonder if the families, will sue the police?

An inquest ruled Rangers were at fault for the Ibrox Disaster and most of the families sued them.

I hope they do though sadly as we all know, no amount of money can compensate for the tragically taken life of a loved one

[Maddog]

South Yorkshire Police chief suspended over Hillsborough



South Yorkshire Police chief constable David Crompton has been suspended following the Hillsborough inquests.
Jurors concluded the 96 victims of the 1989 disaster were unlawfully killed and there were police failings.

The PCC said: "The continuing criticism that has been directed at the Chief Constable and the eroding trust and confidence in South Yorkshire Police I have been left with no choice other than to suspend David Crompton from his duties.

Hours before his suspension, the force issued a statement which said the coroner, Sir John Goldring "ruled that to admit the previous 2012 apology by the Chief Constable into proceedings would be 'wrong' and 'highly prejudicial'."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36154201

Good!

He's probably getting paid the same to sit at home, and will of course draw his full pension. I'm sure he doesn't care one way or the other at this point.

I still can't wrap my head around people trampling each other at a sporting event unless cops pointed guns at people and forced them to keep moving when there was no where to go.

He's definitely getting paid the same to sit at home - that's the way it works - but at least he's not bringing further disrepute upon his force, and it sends a message to other senior cops that there is at least some measure of accountability.

As to how the disaster occurred, I cannot say - but a jury has weighed the evidence and found the police wanting - and that's good enough for me.

You want cops to behave, you have to make them feel it in the bank account.

That being said, just because a jury has found something to be so, doesn't make it so. They get things wrong, although I still support the system. In fact, sometimes it's OK that the jury gets it wrong.

[McAz]

You want cops to behave, you have to make them feel it in the bank account.

That being said, just because a jury has found something to be so, doesn't make it so. They get things wrong, although I still support the system. In fact, sometimes it's OK that the jury gets it wrong.

Agreed on both counts. But I'm not in a position to refute the jury's findings - but I trust them more than the cops.

[calitom]

Do you treally think these cops did these actions to intentionally cause harm? Perhaps they are just human and made wrong decisions that they thought were right.
I can see some sort of discipline for incompetence. But mistakes vs doing something intentionally to harm is a world apart.

[Lady Murasaki]

Do you treally think these cops did these actions to intentionally cause harm? Perhaps they are just human and made wrong decisions that they thought were right.
I can see some sort of discipline for incompetence. But mistakes vs doing something intentionally to harm is a world apart.

More harm was caused by lying or 'covering up' what really happened at the game after the fact. They had made out what happened was the dead victims own fault. The Sun, in particular spewed a very distasteful story about the victims and other crushed fans being drunken louts.
They added insult to injury by not admitting to their mistakes and blaming the football fans.
I have some sympathy for the ordinary policeman tho, there was a lot more trouble with football fans back in those days which may have influenced their hands off approach when fans were being crushed at those fences.

[Vicky]

He's probably getting paid the same to sit at home, and will of course draw his full pension. I'm sure he doesn't care one way or the other at this point.


I still can't wrap my head around people trampling each other at a sporting event unless cops pointed guns at people and forced them to keep moving when there was no where to go.

There wasn't anywhere to go Madders.

There was a 10ft fence at the front and the people at the front, were crushed against it and couldn't get away.

[Vicky]

I wonder if the families, will sue the police?

An inquest ruled Rangers were at fault for the Ibrox Disaster and most of the families sued them.

The Scousers are after compo?

I think they're going to sue the police, Stooo.

[Maddog]

He's probably getting paid the same to sit at home, and will of course draw his full pension. I'm sure he doesn't care one way or the other at this point.


I still can't wrap my head around people trampling each other at a sporting event unless cops pointed guns at people and forced them to keep moving when there was no where to go.

There wasn't anywhere to go Madders.

There was a 10ft fence at the front and the people at the front, were crushed against it and couldn't get away.

I get that. When there is no where to go, people should stop moving forward. If you are touching another human, stop. The cops could have handled it better, but there is something about soccer in the UK that leads to people getting hurt. It's a game.