Treatment at Roadside vs Treatment in hospital

[Maddog]

Each case is assessed on merit.

Typo: 'scoop & scoot' , sowwy.

Remember that she suffered a cardiac arrest in transit so they had to stop again to resuscitate ('time is muscle' is possibly on google, it's an excellent handbook article for A&E dept's)


One more thing, slightly o/t.
You mentioned about how we are so proud of our NHS.
Cos our NHS is the envy of the world - even with all its inbuilt flaws like eg being open to abuse from so called health tourists ...... but that's more an administrative issue, work in progress. The Brits were responsible for numerous medical inventions and innovations in the last 2 centuries, only the Germans come close.
With collective goodwill and the right political climate - away from tory greed & profiteering - it works very well. (Not vaunting, just the bare facts!)

Who told you the NHS was the envy of the world?

A little bird.

The propaganda bird?

While I don't put a lot of stock in rankings of healthcare, but for those that do, you won't find the UK near the top of any list.

Won't find the US there either. But I'm not claiming we are the envy of the world.

The UK were ranked 13th in 2020, down on 10th previous year as our Conservative government have brought in more and more elements of the US system, in fact the UK have now fallen behind Ireland.

The US are ranked 18th in both years so you're pretty consistent as are Japan one place behind you.

We are ranked much lower on other lists.

In any event, none of those lists indicate that the NHS is the envy of the world. Although I have heard numerous Brits make that claim. I'm guessing that's just one of those things that gets repeated enough that it becomes accepted as the truth.

[Cactus Jack]

It's always going to depend on the criteria applied.

But you're right when you say over 11 years of under investment by the Tories has dragged the standards in the NHS down to almost American levels.

[Maddog]

It's always going to depend on the criteria applied.

But you're right when you say over 11 years of under investment by the Tories has dragged the standards in the NHS down to almost American levels.

Then it's definitely not the envy of the world anymore, assuming it ever was..

[Cactus Jack]

It's always going to depend on the criteria applied.

But you're right when you say over 11 years of under investment by the Tories has dragged the standards in the NHS down to almost American levels.

Then it's definitely not the envy of the world anymore, assuming it ever was..

Certainly true - Conservatives tend to ruin it over time

[Maddog]

It's always going to depend on the criteria applied.

But you're right when you say over 11 years of under investment by the Tories has dragged the standards in the NHS down to almost American levels.

Then it's definitely not the envy of the world anymore, assuming it ever was..

Certainly true - Conservatives tend to ruin it over time

Yeah, that's it.

Is that one of those things you were told when you were told the NHS was the envy of the world, when it never really was the envy of the world?.

[Cactus Jack]

Empirically speaking there was a time when it absolutely was.

Whilst some argue that Germany had the first universal healthcare system the UK was the first to have universal healthcare paid for from general taxation where the SOLE criteria for deciding on treatment was clincial need.

That was the model followed by countries like Denmark, Sweden and all the other countries that have surpassed the UK - and I can tell you for a fact that it was held up as a role model in Ireland in 2008 when the global financial crisis was raging. But Conservatives put profits before people and that's where the NHS went.

Take the covid response. The vaccination program - run by the NHS - was a success. Things the NHS was forced by the Conservatives to outsource, like testing and tracing, haven't fared nearly as well.

A private company who were successful in getting a testing contract incorrectly notified 43,000 people they were clear of covid when they had in fact tested positive.

[Maddog]

Empirically speaking there was a time when it absolutely was.

Whilst some argue that Germany had the first universal healthcare system the UK was the first to have universal healthcare paid for from general taxation where the SOLE criteria for deciding on treatment was clincial need.

That was the model followed by countries like Denmark, Sweden and all the other countries that have surpassed the UK - and I can tell you for a fact that it was held up as a role model in Ireland in 2008 when the global financial crisis was raging. But Conservatives put profits before people and that's where the NHS went.

Take the covid response. The vaccination program - run by the NHS - was a success. Things the NHS was forced by the Conservatives to outsource, like testing and tracing, haven't fared nearly as well.

A private company who were successful in getting a testing contract incorrectly notified 43,000 people they were clear of covid when they had in fact tested positive.

If it was, the other folks in Europe would have used it for a blueprint. They didn't. The only country that did was Canada.


Most European countries have something like Obamacare with a more "forceful" mandate or law to participate. They still have private insurance and private doctors, they are just heavily regulated.

[Cactus Jack]

Empirically speaking there was a time when it absolutely was.

Whilst some argue that Germany had the first universal healthcare system the UK was the first to have universal healthcare paid for from general taxation where the SOLE criteria for deciding on treatment was clincial need.

That was the model followed by countries like Denmark, Sweden and all the other countries that have surpassed the UK - and I can tell you for a fact that it was held up as a role model in Ireland in 2008 when the global financial crisis was raging. But Conservatives put profits before people and that's where the NHS went.

Take the covid response. The vaccination program - run by the NHS - was a success. Things the NHS was forced by the Conservatives to outsource, like testing and tracing, haven't fared nearly as well.

A private company who were successful in getting a testing contract incorrectly notified 43,000 people they were clear of covid when they had in fact tested positive.

If it was, the other folks in Europe would have used it for a blueprint. They didn't. The only country that did was Canada.

Most European countries have something like Obamacare with a more "forceful" mandate or law to participate. They still have private insurance and private doctors, they are just heavily regulated.

The German model was first - founded by Otto Von Bismarck, a noted conservative in German politics

[Maddog]

Empirically speaking there was a time when it absolutely was.

Whilst some argue that Germany had the first universal healthcare system the UK was the first to have universal healthcare paid for from general taxation where the SOLE criteria for deciding on treatment was clincial need.

That was the model followed by countries like Denmark, Sweden and all the other countries that have surpassed the UK - and I can tell you for a fact that it was held up as a role model in Ireland in 2008 when the global financial crisis was raging. But Conservatives put profits before people and that's where the NHS went.

Take the covid response. The vaccination program - run by the NHS - was a success. Things the NHS was forced by the Conservatives to outsource, like testing and tracing, haven't fared nearly as well.

A private company who were successful in getting a testing contract incorrectly notified 43,000 people they were clear of covid when they had in fact tested positive.

If it was, the other folks in Europe would have used it for a blueprint. They didn't. The only country that did was Canada.

Most European countries have something like Obamacare with a more "forceful" mandate or law to participate. They still have private insurance and private doctors, they are just heavily regulated.

The German model was first - founded by Otto Von Bismarck, a noted conservative in German politics

So maybe it's the envy of the world. First is always best.

[Cactus Jack]

Could be.

The reason why Bismarck chose to offer mandated universal healthcare to all Germans was to bring forward German unification. He saw, against the perceived wisdom of officials in German states that didn't want to join the unified Germany, that comprehensive universal healthcare would build a sense of belonging and - for want of a better word - German-ness to people who had to that point seen themselves as Germanic but not as Germans - instead they were Bavarians, or Swabians or Thuringians.

[Text]

We are ranked much lower on other lists.

In any event, none of those lists indicate that the NHS is the envy of the world. Although I have heard numerous Brits make that claim.
I'm guessing that's just one of those things that gets repeated enough that it becomes accepted as the truth.

You were VERY triggered by me praising our health service!
Strange, cos I never said anything negative about the US health system, I did not even mention your country.

Lol I did not hear [from a 3rd party] how good our NHS was, I saw its excellence at close quarters with my own eyes as an employee and as an Obstetric patient and later as a panic stricken mum who had to drive down to the A&E in my PJ's in the middle of the night, .... with my small tot wheezing in the back seat.

[Maddog]

We are ranked much lower on other lists.

In any event, none of those lists indicate that the NHS is the envy of the world. Although I have heard numerous Brits make that claim.
I'm guessing that's just one of those things that gets repeated enough that it becomes accepted as the truth.

You were VERY triggered by me praising our health service. Strange, cos I never said anything negative about the US health system, I did not even mention your country.

Lol I not hear [from a 3rd party] how good the NHS was, I saw its excellence a close quaters with my own eyes as an employee and as an Obstetric patient and later as a panic stricken mum who had to drive down to the A&E in my PJ's in the middle of the night, .... with my small tot wheezing in the back seat.

I'm not triggered.

I was just pointing out your fallacy.

[Text]

Empirically speaking there was a time when it absolutely was.

Whilst some argue that Germany had the first universal healthcare system the UK was the first to have universal healthcare paid for from general taxation where the SOLE criteria for deciding on treatment was clincial need.

That was the model followed by countries like Denmark, Sweden and all the other countries that have surpassed the UK - and I can tell you for a fact that it was held up as a role model in Ireland in 2008 when the global financial crisis was raging. But Conservatives put profits before people and that's where the NHS went.

Take the covid response. The vaccination program - run by the NHS - was a success. Things the NHS was forced by the Conservatives to outsource, like testing and tracing, haven't fared nearly as well.

A private company who were successful in getting a testing contract incorrectly notified 43,000 people they were clear of covid when they had in fact tested positive.

Aye. There was a nod in my post to the excellence of the German system.

And there was also a reference re how much the tories & their chums have looted & plundered & cherrypicked the best bits out of our NHS, frankly I am surprised it's still standing.

[Cactus Jack]

I saw that Text.

You may have seen my own praise of the Israeli healthcare system, I'm surprised it didn't rank more highly in world rankings as all reports about it have been effusive in their praise.