Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:41 pm

Mekon wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Do you agree or disagree with those 'academic findings'? Only it would be quite a novel approach to post 'academic findings' that opposed your own view. And those so-called academic findings clearly say that 'gays should have the right to adopt'.

A simple yes or no answer will do - do you believe gays should have the right to adopt?

Yes, the child's welfare is paramount, so why would you want to disadvantage it from day one, by removing the all-important female presence in it's upbringing, and giving it the burden of being subject to unnecessary bullying? Advocating gay adoption is pure selfishness, based on the parent's rights, and not the child's welfare.


Unless equally rigorous research comes to light which counters these findings I'm bound to accept them unless I believe for good reason that the outcomes have been falsified. Trapper John's 'bloke up the pub' research is not in my view of equal academic rigor.

I don't believe that anyone has the right to adopt. I do believe as stated that:

"The only pertinent issue here is whether parents, be they adoptive or natural, can provide better care than the child could expect to receive in an orphanage, hospital or other institution. The position of each child must be assessed on a case by case basis with regard to the resources available at the time.

Since the child's welfare is paramount, if this care can be provided by homosexuals, Muslims, people who enjoy cosplay or even apologists for EDL offenders then only objections which are not coloured by homophobia, racism, prudishness or political correctness can be seriously entertained."

I do not believe children are disadvantaged by providing them with loving carers in the community over care in institutions even though I personally would prefer them not be placed with racists or homophobes.


Why is that then?
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:46 pm

Mekon wrote:
Unless equally rigorous research comes to light which counters these findings I'm bound to accept them unless I believe for good reason that the outcomes have been falsified. Trapper John's 'bloke up the pub' research is not in my view of equal academic rigor.

I don't believe that anyone has the right to adopt. I do believe as stated that:

"The only pertinent issue here is whether parents, be they adoptive or natural, can provide better care than the child could expect to receive in an orphanage, hospital or other institution. The position of each child must be assessed on a case by case basis with regard to the resources available at the time.

Since the child's welfare is paramount, if this care can be provided by homosexuals, Muslims, people who enjoy cosplay or even apologists for EDL offenders then only objections which are not coloured by homophobia, racism, prudishness or political correctness can be seriously entertained."

I do not believe children are disadvantaged by providing them with loving carers in the community over care in institutions even though I personally would prefer them not be placed with racists or homophobes.


If you don't believe anyone has the right to adopt, you might be better off not posting 'academic findings' that clearly state 'gays should have the right to adopt'. :thumbsup: '

Seriously, you don't think a child would be disadvantaged by denying it a maternal influence in it's upbringing, or having it be subject to unnecessary bullying?

Well done on getting your Liberal Wankspeak line in about racists and homophobes though.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:50 pm

Trapper John wrote:
Mekon wrote:
Red Okktober wrote:
Do you agree or disagree with those 'academic findings'? Only it would be quite a novel approach to post 'academic findings' that opposed your own view. And those so-called academic findings clearly say that 'gays should have the right to adopt'.

A simple yes or no answer will do - do you believe gays should have the right to adopt?

Yes, the child's welfare is paramount, so why would you want to disadvantage it from day one, by removing the all-important female presence in it's upbringing, and giving it the burden of being subject to unnecessary bullying? Advocating gay adoption is pure selfishness, based on the parent's rights, and not the child's welfare.


Unless equally rigorous research comes to light which counters these findings I'm bound to accept them unless I believe for good reason that the outcomes have been falsified. Trapper John's 'bloke up the pub' research is not in my view of equal academic rigor.

I don't believe that anyone has the right to adopt. I do believe as stated that:

"The only pertinent issue here is whether parents, be they adoptive or natural, can provide better care than the child could expect to receive in an orphanage, hospital or other institution. The position of each child must be assessed on a case by case basis with regard to the resources available at the time.

Since the child's welfare is paramount, if this care can be provided by homosexuals, Muslims, people who enjoy cosplay or even apologists for EDL offenders then only objections which are not coloured by homophobia, racism, prudishness or political correctness can be seriously entertained."

I do not believe children are disadvantaged by providing them with loving carers in the community over care in institutions even though I personally would prefer them not be placed with racists or homophobes.


Why is that then?

Because I believe that homophobia and racism are detrimental both to the health of society and to the individual. Having said that, I would not prohibit adoption solely on those grounds.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:55 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
Mekon wrote:
Unless equally rigorous research comes to light which counters these findings I'm bound to accept them unless I believe for good reason that the outcomes have been falsified. Trapper John's 'bloke up the pub' research is not in my view of equal academic rigor.

I don't believe that anyone has the right to adopt. I do believe as stated that:

"The only pertinent issue here is whether parents, be they adoptive or natural, can provide better care than the child could expect to receive in an orphanage, hospital or other institution. The position of each child must be assessed on a case by case basis with regard to the resources available at the time.

Since the child's welfare is paramount, if this care can be provided by homosexuals, Muslims, people who enjoy cosplay or even apologists for EDL offenders then only objections which are not coloured by homophobia, racism, prudishness or political correctness can be seriously entertained."

I do not believe children are disadvantaged by providing them with loving carers in the community over care in institutions even though I personally would prefer them not be placed with racists or homophobes.


If you don't believe anyone has the right to adopt, you might be better off not posting 'academic findings' that clearly state 'gays should have the right to adopt'. :thumbsup: '

Seriously, you don't think a child would be disadvantaged by denying it a maternal influence in it's upbringing, or having it be subject to unnecessary bullying?

Well done on getting your Liberal Wankspeak line in about racists and homophobes though.


Adoption is not a right, it is something granted to people after weighty consideration as to their suitability. Same-sex couples are deemed by those who are not plagued by prejudice to be suitable candidates.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Avon Barksdale » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:26 pm

Stooo wrote:Being gay is not a huge deal to kids these days, it's sort of ignored because it's accepted by that generation. Bullying is not an issue.


But homophobia is still an issue across Society and bullying of kids for their or their parent(s) sexuality does happen. Clearly things have got much better in recent years though which is great.

Selection bias tends to be a real problem (but not the only one when it comes to methodology) with many of the studies which show that no disadvantage occurs when comparing outcomes of children of same sex couples and heterosexual couples. If you live in a socially liberal, wealthy part of a metropolitan city where no one bats an eyelid about your sexuality when it comes to kids then that's to be expected I think. However, those conditions only represent a small and atypical slice of society. The negative consequences a child could face when placed with a same sex couple does need to be factored into a placement and I don't think the situation is equal with that of heterosexual couples. That is unfair but children aren't political pawns to be played.

However, as I said before life is rarely clear cut. Getting kids out of care into loving, stable homes I think outweighs the potential negatives the child may face in later years in most cases and there are more kids in care than there are straight couples willing to adopt I believe.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:54 pm

Mekon wrote:Adoption is not a right, it is something granted to people after weighty consideration as to their suitability. Same-sex couples are deemed by those who are not plagued by prejudice to be suitable candidates.



It's not prejudiced to want what's best for a child, and all things being equal, a mum and a dad is better for a child, than a dad and a dad.

This liberal attitude of yours stinks quite frankly. Not only are your type intent on ruining the country with your approach to immigration and islam, but you also want to ruin individual children's lives.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby wutang » Thu Oct 12, 2017 1:56 pm

Trapper John wrote:
wutang wrote:
Trapper John wrote:I fail to see how a poll of what? a hundred, two hundred, a thousand people even is representative of 'the majority of people' particularly when every week we hear of many thousands of people, who I doubt you'd describe as 'old folk' singing degrogatory songs about homosexuals from the football terraces......just a hunch but I doubt they agree with gay adoption. :dunno:



"Many thousands" out of tens of thousands.

So a vast minority :thumbsup:


Maybe the rest just don't sing-a-long because they either don't want to be banned or even arrested under the all embracing trumped up laws typically described as 'Hate Crimes' :dunno:



Yes, that must be it :off head:
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:26 pm

Avon Barksdale wrote:
Stooo wrote:Being gay is not a huge deal to kids these days, it's sort of ignored because it's accepted by that generation. Bullying is not an issue.


But homophobia is still an issue across Society and bullying of kids for their or their parent(s) sexuality does happen. Clearly things have got much better in recent years though which is great.

Selection bias tends to be a real problem (but not the only one when it comes to methodology) with many of the studies which show that no disadvantage occurs when comparing outcomes of children of same sex couples and heterosexual couples. If you live in a socially liberal, wealthy part of a metropolitan city where no one bats an eyelid about your sexuality when it comes to kids then that's to be expected I think. However, those conditions only represent a small and atypical slice of society. The negative consequences a child could face when placed with a same sex couple does need to be factored into a placement and I don't think the situation is equal with that of heterosexual couples. That is unfair but children aren't political pawns to be played.

However, as I said before life is rarely clear cut. Getting kids out of care into loving, stable homes I think outweighs the potential negatives the child may face in later years in most cases and there are more kids in care than there are straight couples willing to adopt I believe.


Have they though? have they really? if so why are we constantly bombarded with calls for equal rights for this or that, why do homosexuals maintain they are the same as the rest of us, then prove they aren't with 'gay pride' gatherings and marches being a prime example of that.

It's the same with racism, for more than 50 years we've had it rammed down our throats, yet it still exists and I'd wager to the same extent it always did. It is all just hidden better because a section of society has forced governments to implement laws which make it illegal to express your true thoughts and feelings in public, that breeds resentment.

The progressive liberal thinkers have much to answer for this in both regards, they have created barriers by their constant preaching that minorities in our society are not being treated equally or with abuse and derision. This in turn makes governments and their agencies treat these minorities more often than not, differently from than the majority, this is what causes the problem, not the colour of skin or the sexual preference of people.

I'll say it again until I'm blue in the face, humankind's basic and natural reaction to being confronted with things that are different to them and the norm is attack to defend themselves from a percieved enemy. No amount of social engineering or laws will ever change that, it's in our genes, everyone's genes.

Time in the guise of acclimatization for want of a better word, would have virtually eliminated racism and homphobia decades ago, people would have accepted, or got used to both as they became part and parcel of ordinary life at a natural pace. Of course, progressive liberal thinkers don't want that natural pace factor, they want instant results and so we have neither half a century or more later.

If you don't want people being treated differently by others, stop treating other people differently to them.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:27 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
Mekon wrote:Adoption is not a right, it is something granted to people after weighty consideration as to their suitability. Same-sex couples are deemed by those who are not plagued by prejudice to be suitable candidates.



It's not prejudiced to want what's best for a child, and all things being equal, a mum and a dad is better for a child, than a dad and a dad.

This liberal attitude of yours stinks quite frankly. Not only are your type intent on ruining the country with your approach to immigration and islam, but you also want to ruin individual children's lives.


It is prejudiced however to consign children in need to institutions rather than the care of loving and responsible adults simply because you do not approve of their sexual orientation, religion or race.

Please stop worrying about the state of the country, Brexit will ensure that Islam is contained, immigrants returned to their place of origin and that an extra £350 million will be spent each week on public services, the people you voted for have told you so.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Thu Oct 12, 2017 2:56 pm

Mekon wrote:It is prejudiced however to consign children in need to institutions rather than the care of loving and responsible adults simply because you do not approve of their sexual orientation, religion or race.

Please stop worrying about the state of the country, Brexit will ensure that Islam is contained, immigrants returned to their place of origin and that an extra £350 million will be spent each week on public services, the people you voted for have told you so.


I haven't mentioned anything at all about a potential adoptive parent's religion or race. Shall I 'do a mekon' and throw a hissy fit about you 'falsely attributing this premise to me' and goading me? LoL

Why would it be a bad thing to 'consign children in need to institutions' if a suitable home wasn't available? How do you presume these institutions are run in the UK - like some kind of Dickensian workshop? At least they have other kids to play with. I'm not so sure why you think shipping a child off to a couple of gay fellas would be a better option.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Trapper John » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:35 pm

Can you imagine the shock a child will have thinking that running into Daddy and Daddy's bedroom and jumping on the bed is a normal thing that everyone does, then finding out they are in a majority of one, when they naively come out with it at school?

That feeling and the resulting teasing they will get their whole school life will remain with them forever. By placing children with homosexual parents of either gender is preparing them for a later life of misery and isolation, which is why I call it state authorised child abuse.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Mekon » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:44 pm

Red Okktober wrote:
Mekon wrote:It is prejudiced however to consign children in need to institutions rather than the care of loving and responsible adults simply because you do not approve of their sexual orientation, religion or race.

Please stop worrying about the state of the country, Brexit will ensure that Islam is contained, immigrants returned to their place of origin and that an extra £350 million will be spent each week on public services, the people you voted for have told you so.


I haven't mentioned anything at all about a potential adoptive parent's religion or race. Shall I 'do a mekon' and throw a hissy fit about you 'falsely attributing this premise to me' and goading me? LoL

Why would it be a bad thing to 'consign children in need to institutions' if a suitable home wasn't available? How do you presume these institutions are run in the UK - like some kind of Dickensian workshop? At least they have other kids to play with. I'm not so sure why you think shipping a child off to a couple of gay fellas would be a better option.


It's not a bad thing to care for children in institutions if there are no other alternatives, but alternatives exist including putting them into the loving care of same-sex couples, Muslims and couples of a different ethnic origin. Two out of three of which you have no problem with I'm glad to hear.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Markey mark » Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:54 pm

Lesbians and gays have fought to years for Equal rights , what about the equal rights to a child that needs a mother figure and a father figure , when people adopt their children it’s for many reasons , but many adopted children has partly grown up in a family situation, with both sex role models in their lives , once you sign the children over the natural parent has no say were the children go , again wrong , if I was young lady and expecting a child , but for unknown reason I wasn’t going to keep that child , I wouldn’t want the child to go to a gay couple , simple reason believe both sexes have a important role in a child’s development, ask yourself in a natural parenting world , why do people say she’s a daddy girl, or he a mummy’s boy, there is a big reason for this saying and a important one to,
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:00 pm

Trapper John wrote:Can you imagine the shock a child will have thinking that running into Daddy and Daddy's bedroom and jumping on the bed is a normal thing that everyone does, then finding out they are in a majority of one, when they naively come out with it at school?

That feeling and the resulting teasing they will get their whole school life will remain with them forever. By placing children with homosexual parents of either gender is preparing them for a later life of misery and isolation, which is why I call it state authorised child abuse.


The only way kids wouldn't be affected by having two gay dads as parents, would be if the liberals somehow broke away from mainstream society and lived in special compounds by themselves.

Boys could pretend to be girls and run around in ballerina outfits, and girls could dress as plumbers. Actually scrap that, they wouldn't be allowed to be boys or girls, they'd all be gender neutral, with pronouns like Zir or Ze.. After evening prayers, they'd all go home to a lovely vegan meal cooked by one of their homosexual fathers, before being tucked up in bed and read a nice bed time story from the koran or Pink News.
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Re: Gay Man Accused Of Killing Adopted Baby Daughter.

Postby Red Okktober » Thu Oct 12, 2017 4:05 pm

Mekon wrote:It's not a bad thing to care for children in institutions if there are no other alternatives, but alternatives exist including putting them into the loving care of same-sex couples, Muslims and couples of a different ethnic origin. Two out of three of which you have no problem with I'm glad to hear.


I didn't say whether I had a problem or not with other religions or races adopting children - I haven't mentioned them at all other than to tell you, twice now, that I haven't mentioned them.

Stop falsely attributing this premise to me. :grrrrr:
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