Rainbow Laces? - When in Rome I say

[Guest]

I have a genuine question, I’d be interested to hear your views.

What do you guys regard as homiphobia?

Is it ok to say you have nothing against homosexuals but you don’t agree with it? Or is that homophobic? Do you have to embrace it and fully accept it to be classed as not homophobic? Where is the line, in your opinion?

Intersting question and not seen any answer yet.

For me, I don't care. Let people be people. To add another question to Dean's original

How would you (as in people generally) be if one of your children, or even grand children were gay, especially those who display angst about gay people?

I just wonder why it is that people think if you talk about homosexuals in anything but glowing, reverent terms, you are somehow homophobic and want to hang them all.

Another one of those liberal things I suppose.

Answering your question, if my grandson for instance turned out to be homosexual I would love him just exactly the same as I do now, why wouldn't I, why wouldn't anyone their own?

Would you see them as an aberration, as abnormal, someone with a mental disorder? Would you expect to see them mincing around?

I would see him as my grandson of course, why he was like that wouldn't come into my thoughts as long as it had no affect on his health. I doubt if he'd mince around, even if he did, he wouldn't do it in front of his family.

Now I've answered your question you answer mine in the first part of my post, you are obviously one of those 'progressive' liberal types so why is it then?

Your question - I just wonder why it is that people think if you talk about homosexuals in anything but glowing, reverent terms, you are somehow homophobic and want to hang them all.

My answer - I didn't know people did that. I've never come across it. I'm sure you believe it but I think it's more to do with your perception than reality.


And as for your statement - 'you are obviously one of those 'progressive' liberal types' - where does that come from and what does it even mean?


I'm sure gay grandson wouldn't dare walk or act in a gay manner in front of grandad - in the same way he wouldn't bring his non-white, non-English boyfriend to meet you.

[Guest]

Answering your question, if my grandson for instance turned out to be homosexual I would love him just exactly the same as I do now, why wouldn't I, why wouldn't anyone their own?

I would see him as my grandson of course, why he was like that wouldn't come into my thoughts as long as it had no affect on his health. I doubt if he'd mince around, even if he did, he wouldn't do it in front of his family.

why wouldn't he mince in front of his family, tj? would you only accept him if he wasn't *obviously* outwardly gay?

[McAz]

Actor Michael Boothe, in west London died in April 1990, beaten to death by a gang of up to six men close to a public lavatory. The police said he had been the victim of "an extraordinarily severe beating, of a merciless and savage nature". He managed to give a description of his attackers before he died, and a reward of £15,000 was offered, but no one was caught, and the crime remains unsolved. The police review identified institutional homophobia within the Metropolitan Police as a factor.

Colin Ireland, age 43, who in 1993 was jailed for life for murdering five gay men. Ireland picked up the men at pubs in London, and then killed them in their own homes. A Scotland Yard review showed that Ireland's capture was hampered by institutional homophobia within the Metropolitan Police.

Andrew Collier, a housing warden, aged 33, was one of Ireland's victims; the murder was classified as homophobic and linked with the death of Peter Walker, Ireland's first victim. The report said the police could have done more to warn the community of the links between the murders.

Emanuel Spiteri, age 41, who was strangled to death in his flat in Catford by Ireland, after meeting in a pub in Earls Court, west London.

Robyn Brown, a 23-year-old transsexual prostitute, was found stabbed to death in her flat in London on 28 February 1997. The original report described her as being 23-year-old Gemma Browne, formerly James Darwin Browne.[19] The case went cold for over ten years, but her killer, James Hopkins, was eventually caught; in January 2009 he was jailed for life.[20][21] The report found that identifying her to the public using different names may have hampered attempts to connect with relevant communities.

Jaap Bornkamp, a 52-year-old florist, was knifed in June 2000 in south-east London in a homophobic attack; the murder remains unsolved despite the police displaying 20 ft by 10 ft images of CCTV footage taken near the murder scene. He was attacked after leaving a night club, and the police are reported as saying there was no confrontation or argument, but that the attack was homophobic and unprovoked. The report found this case to have been a model of police good practice.

Geoffrey Windsor, 57, in south London died in June 2002 from head injuries in a park after he was beaten and robbed. The police said the murder was motivated by homophobia. A review of this and similar cases in the area highlighted poor policing due to institutional homophobia within the police, particularly in not taking previous attacks in the area more seriously.


Just coincidence that they were LGBT I suppose?

[McAz]

I just wonder why it is that people think if you talk about homosexuals in anything but glowing, reverent terms, you are somehow homophobic and want to hang them all.

Because until relatively recently most talk and action about and regarding homosexuals (males at least) was about ridiculing or persecuting them. Still is from the primitives among us.

Was it/is it? presumably you have documentative proof from independent sources to back that up, or is that just your perception of how things are?

No need - just read the homophobic posts on here. Plus when I was a kid they were hounding them legally.

Interesting you say that, I haven't seen any?

I haven't seen any posts about Arsenal - I'm not interested in seeing them.

[Trapper John]

I can't see any evidence of those murders being connected to homophobic hatred

As with many cases, particularly these days, the fact that a victim is either homosexual or a different race, immediately leads to the suspicion of a homophobic or racial motive before anything else, which in some cases can lead to the perpetrator never being caught precisely because police have followed the wrong line of enquiry.

This is the result of continued pressure from 'progressive' types using unsubstantiated or assumed claims of Police negligence because of sexual or racial prejudice, when in most cases it was only ever just bad policing methods.

As the son of a Police officer who served for 30 years in the Met in south London, I can categorically tell you that the vast majority of violence and murder inflicted on homosexuals were at the hands of other homosexuals and many of them were of the most horrific and brutal nature.

These days everyone is quick to make assumptions based mostly on the words of those who shout loudest and have the most vested interest, for fear of being labelled with any one of the many descriptive nouns, these people fire out with gay abandon (no pun intended)

[Trapper John]

Answering your question, if my grandson for instance turned out to be homosexual I would love him just exactly the same as I do now, why wouldn't I, why wouldn't anyone their own?

I would see him as my grandson of course, why he was like that wouldn't come into my thoughts as long as it had no affect on his health. I doubt if he'd mince around, even if he did, he wouldn't do it in front of his family.

why wouldn't he mince in front of his family, tj? would you only accept him if he wasn't *obviously* outwardly gay?

He wouldn't mince because I know him and you don't. For your information almost all the homosexuals I've had contact with over the years and there were quite a few, didn't 'mince' either thats because they considered themselves normal and normal people don't mince around normally.

[McAz]

I can't see any evidence of those murders being connected to homophobic hatred

Nor could the police:

"In July 2004 an independent inquiry into police procedures carried out by the independent Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgender Advisory Group for the Metropolitan Police was announced. In May 2007 the report for the independent review was released; it had examined how detectives had handled 10 murders of gay men or transsexuals. The report found that some police inquiries were hampered by lack of knowledge, reliance on unfounded stereotypes and personal prejudices; these problems were mirrored and exacerbated by media coverage."

We tend to see only what we want to see.

------------------------

Regardless:

Huge rise in hate crime across London, new figures reveal

Charities warn ‘toxic language’ of Brexit debate is to blame for increases as high as 216 per cent

The Metropolitan Police statistics reveal an increase in almost all forms of hate-related crime, including incidents linked to disability, racial and homophobic motives.

The figures also show homophobic incidents have increased by 12 per cent, from 1,816 to 2,033.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-hate-crime-eu-referendum-london-racist-religious-faith-victims-figures-statistics-a7615356.html

[Guest]

Answering your question, if my grandson for instance turned out to be homosexual I would love him just exactly the same as I do now, why wouldn't I, why wouldn't anyone their own?

I would see him as my grandson of course, why he was like that wouldn't come into my thoughts as long as it had no affect on his health. I doubt if he'd mince around, even if he did, he wouldn't do it in front of his family.

why wouldn't he mince in front of his family, tj? would you only accept him if he wasn't *obviously* outwardly gay?

He wouldn't mince because I know him and you don't. For your information almost all the homosexuals I've had contact with over the years and there were quite a few, didn't 'mince' either thats because they considered themselves normal and normal people don't mince around normally.

you said " I doubt if he'd mince around, even if he did, he wouldn't do it in front of his family " so why wouldn't he do it in front of his family, even if he did mince elsewhere?

[Lady Murasaki]

Actor Michael Boothe, in west London died in April 1990, beaten to death by a gang of up to six men close to a public lavatory. The police said he had been the victim of "an extraordinarily severe beating, of a merciless and savage nature". He managed to give a description of his attackers before he died, and a reward of £15,000 was offered, but no one was caught, and the crime remains unsolved. The police review identified institutional homophobia within the Metropolitan Police as a factor.

Colin Ireland, age 43, who in 1993 was jailed for life for murdering five gay men. Ireland picked up the men at pubs in London, and then killed them in their own homes. A Scotland Yard review showed that Ireland's capture was hampered by institutional homophobia within the Metropolitan Police.

Andrew Collier, a housing warden, aged 33, was one of Ireland's victims; the murder was classified as homophobic and linked with the death of Peter Walker, Ireland's first victim. The report said the police could have done more to warn the community of the links between the murders.

Emanuel Spiteri, age 41, who was strangled to death in his flat in Catford by Ireland, after meeting in a pub in Earls Court, west London.

Robyn Brown, a 23-year-old transsexual prostitute, was found stabbed to death in her flat in London on 28 February 1997. The original report described her as being 23-year-old Gemma Browne, formerly James Darwin Browne.[19] The case went cold for over ten years, but her killer, James Hopkins, was eventually caught; in January 2009 he was jailed for life.[20][21] The report found that identifying her to the public using different names may have hampered attempts to connect with relevant communities.

Jaap Bornkamp, a 52-year-old florist, was knifed in June 2000 in south-east London in a homophobic attack; the murder remains unsolved despite the police displaying 20 ft by 10 ft images of CCTV footage taken near the murder scene. He was attacked after leaving a night club, and the police are reported as saying there was no confrontation or argument, but that the attack was homophobic and unprovoked. The report found this case to have been a model of police good practice.

Geoffrey Windsor, 57, in south London died in June 2002 from head injuries in a park after he was beaten and robbed. The police said the murder was motivated by homophobia. A review of this and similar cases in the area highlighted poor policing due to institutional homophobia within the police, particularly in not taking previous attacks in the area more seriously.


Just coincidence that they were LGBT I suppose?

Did you see that show on last year about some gays, I'll look up the title later. But one of the main characters was killed by another gay man who got violent because he was so ashamed and disgusted by his own gay feelings.

[McAz]

Actor Michael Boothe, in west London died in April 1990, beaten to death by a gang of up to six men close to a public lavatory. The police said he had been the victim of "an extraordinarily severe beating, of a merciless and savage nature". He managed to give a description of his attackers before he died, and a reward of £15,000 was offered, but no one was caught, and the crime remains unsolved. The police review identified institutional homophobia within the Metropolitan Police as a factor.

Colin Ireland, age 43, who in 1993 was jailed for life for murdering five gay men. Ireland picked up the men at pubs in London, and then killed them in their own homes. A Scotland Yard review showed that Ireland's capture was hampered by institutional homophobia within the Metropolitan Police.

Andrew Collier, a housing warden, aged 33, was one of Ireland's victims; the murder was classified as homophobic and linked with the death of Peter Walker, Ireland's first victim. The report said the police could have done more to warn the community of the links between the murders.

Emanuel Spiteri, age 41, who was strangled to death in his flat in Catford by Ireland, after meeting in a pub in Earls Court, west London.

Robyn Brown, a 23-year-old transsexual prostitute, was found stabbed to death in her flat in London on 28 February 1997. The original report described her as being 23-year-old Gemma Browne, formerly James Darwin Browne.[19] The case went cold for over ten years, but her killer, James Hopkins, was eventually caught; in January 2009 he was jailed for life.[20][21] The report found that identifying her to the public using different names may have hampered attempts to connect with relevant communities.

Jaap Bornkamp, a 52-year-old florist, was knifed in June 2000 in south-east London in a homophobic attack; the murder remains unsolved despite the police displaying 20 ft by 10 ft images of CCTV footage taken near the murder scene. He was attacked after leaving a night club, and the police are reported as saying there was no confrontation or argument, but that the attack was homophobic and unprovoked. The report found this case to have been a model of police good practice.

Geoffrey Windsor, 57, in south London died in June 2002 from head injuries in a park after he was beaten and robbed. The police said the murder was motivated by homophobia. A review of this and similar cases in the area highlighted poor policing due to institutional homophobia within the police, particularly in not taking previous attacks in the area more seriously.


Just coincidence that they were LGBT I suppose?

Did you see that show on last year about some gays, I'll look up the title later. But one of the main characters was killed by another gay man who got violent because he was so ashamed and disgusted by his own gay feelings.

No - but I'm aware that some gays feel that way. So sad that we can't just let people be.

[Lady Murasaki]

It was called 'Cucumber', the murder scene was really shocking as it had mainly been a comedy up to that point.

[Dean]

Maybe homophobes would be more understanding if they tried sucking a cock? You never know, they might like it...

[McAz]

It was called 'Cucumber', the murder scene was really shocking as it had mainly been a comedy up to that point.

I looked it up - Russell T Davies is behind it - as he is most UK gay themed TV it seems.

[Trapper John]

Here is a perfect example of what I just posted from the litany of cases by McAz:

Jaap Bornkamp, a 52-year-old florist, was knifed in June 2000 in south-east London in a homophobic attack; the murder remains unsolved despite the police displaying 20 ft by 10 ft images of CCTV footage taken near the murder scene. He was attacked after leaving a night club, and the police are reported as saying there was no confrontation or argument, but that the attack was homophobic and unprovoked. The report found this case to have been a model of police good practice.

A man is murdered outside a night club, it appears there are no witnesses, at least none who can identify a perpetrator. There does appear to be though, someone who can say no confrontation or argument occurred. With apparently so little to go on, it's unsurprising that the case remains unsolved.

However the police report that the attack and murder was 'homophobic' in nature, how did they work that out and why would that be? because the man happened to be homosexual, maybe?

Now why would an unsolved murder be described as 'a model of police good practice' strange because I would have thought to win that sort of accolade you'd at least have to catch a suspect or culprit.

Maybe what the authors of that description meant by that was that the police labelled the crime 'homophobic' in nature even though they had no firm evidence apart from the man being homosexual.

That would certainly be 'good practice' for those who want as many crimes against homosexuals as possible to be labelled 'homophobic' so as to massage the statistics they use to further their interests. The Police would be fine with that too 'a pat on the back and a firm handshake from those who once accused them of being institutionally homophobic', it goes a long way to prove they've 'changed', whats not to like? - it's a win, win all round ........ except it's not.

It certainly isn't a win for the murder victim or his family. I wonder if any of them think that maybe because the investigation was so obssessed with looking for a homophobic motivation and perpetrator, that the real culprit who slipped away into the ether and is now gone forever, was most likely another homosexual?

[Red Okktober]

For want of a better phrase, I believe 'normal gays' are pretty much accepted by society. By normal gays, I mean those who don't make a song and dance about being gay. Those that 'just get on' with life and who are defined by their personalities, rather than their sexuality.

it's the ones who are forever seeing homophobia everywhere, always promoting the fact that they are gay, be it rainbow laces, or prancing around on the back of a lorry in their vests and pants to promote gay pride, who invite trouble for gays in general. They claim to want to be treated like everyone else, but are going about in in such a way, all they succeed in doing is to highlight the differences.

if self-promoting gays could all become normal gays, I believe homophobia would be hugely reduced. By that I mean actual homophobia, and not the wet liberal internet forum definition of homophobia. I won't be explaining actual homophobia to anyone, as I've done that enough in the past, so don't ask. if you don't know by now, you're already a lost cause.