Jeffrey Epstein Arrested

[Fletch]

Why are they bagging him if he was found dead?

[Cannydc]

Standard operating procedures.

You aren't dead until a doctor certifies it, and in the meantime the attempts to preserve life are as much to avoid a lawsuit as to actually save him.

[Fletch]

Standard operating procedures.

You aren't dead until a doctor certifies it, and in the meantime the attempts to preserve life are as much to avoid a lawsuit as to actually save him.

[Fletch]

Jeffrey Epstein had broken bones in his neck and suffered injuries commonly linked to hanging OR strangulation, autopsy reveals - as billionaire's mystery 'associate' claims the body

Jeffrey Epstein's autopsy report reveals that the pedophile had broken bones in his neck, consistent with a hanging

Sources tell The Washington Post that he had a broken hyoid bone - a break seen in those who hang themselves but more common in strangulation victims

The autopsy was completed Sunday, but the New York City's chief medical examiner listed the 66-year-old's cause of death as pending and not a suicide

A source says Epstein was in 'great spirits' before his death in jail Saturday

He met daily with lawyers at Metropolitan Correctional Center and believed his legal team would win an appeal to get him bail
Epstein told his lawyer Friday, 'I'll see you Sunday', but was found dead Saturday

He was taken off suicide watch and given his own cell after allegedly telling his lawyers that his cellmate Nicholas Tartaglione inflicted the neck injuries on him

It was reported Epstein may have tried to take his own life in July and Tartaglione's lawyer claimed his client tried to save him by alerting guards

Epstein told his lawyers that former police officer Tartaglione 'roughed him up, and that's why they got him off suicide watch'.

While Epstein was in the Special Housing Unit (SHU) at the time of his reported first suicide attempt on July 23, he shared a cell with the former police officer who was under extra security.

Tartaglione was charged with kidnapping and murdering four people in a 2016 drug deal gone wrong.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... icide.html

[Cannydc]

Standard operating procedures.

You aren't dead until a doctor certifies it, and in the meantime the attempts to preserve life are as much to avoid a lawsuit as to actually save him.

Hanging

1. Support the body to reduce constriction. Staff should be aware of the potential for injury to themselves from such a process, and should consider utilising any alternative methods of support, such as items of cell furniture (see manual handling guidelines).

2. Cut the prisoner down.

3. Cut and then release the ligature immediately the prisoner has been cut down, preserving the knot if possible.

4. Place the prisoner on his / her back on a flat, solid surface.

5. Check for signs of life, i.e. breathing, pulse, any movement of the body.

6. If not breathing and / or no pulse is present, clear airway and attempt resuscitation, using a face mask with non-return valve, unless rigor mortis of the limbs has clearly set in. (Rigor mortis is a condition of extreme stiffness affecting the arms and legs after death, making it virtually impossible to bend the wrists, elbows or knees).

7. If conscious / revived, place in recovery position.

https://bulger.co.uk/prison/SelfHarmPSA_2700.pdf

[Fletch]

Standard operating procedures.

You aren't dead until a doctor certifies it, and in the meantime the attempts to preserve life are as much to avoid a lawsuit as to actually save him.

Hanging

1. Support the body to reduce constriction. Staff should be aware of the potential for injury to themselves from such a process, and should consider utilising any alternative methods of support, such as items of cell furniture (see manual handling guidelines).

2. Cut the prisoner down.

3. Cut and then release the ligature immediately the prisoner has been cut down, preserving the knot if possible.

4. Place the prisoner on his / her back on a flat, solid surface.

5. Check for signs of life, i.e. breathing, pulse, any movement of the body.

6. If not breathing and / or no pulse is present, clear airway and attempt resuscitation, using a face mask with non-return valve, unless rigor mortis of the limbs has clearly set in. (Rigor mortis is a condition of extreme stiffness affecting the arms and legs after death, making it virtually impossible to bend the wrists, elbows or knees).

7. If conscious / revived, place in recovery position.

https://bulger.co.uk/prison/SelfHarmPSA_2700.pdf

After treatment in cell and on way out on a gurney?

No paramedic can call death and has to treat every dead patient they come across as if they can be revived?

Stop grasping at straws canny. He was found dead and that's before the time it took for paramedics to get there, not to mention the time before he was found.

Of course, it could be a staging to give cover for his removal to Israel, hence the coroner waiting for instruction further information before releasing any news of his post Mortem (earlier in thread)

Or he could just have been Arkancided, as most suspect.

[Cannydc]

And, as a matter of interest, while collecting body parts from an RAF Phantom aircraft crash in Germany, we were told to place them in a pile so the doctor could pronounce pilot and navigator dead. The heads were still in the bone domes, and hands in gloves.

And here's your link. I was serving at Wildenrath, 1979 - 82.

https://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFA ... 202318.PDF

[Cannydc]

Only doctors can call death, as far as I know - certainly in the UK. That's why most car accident victims are certified Dead On Arrival (at hospital).

Stick to your CTs Fletch.

We get a giggle at how you fall for them every single time.

[Fletch]

Only doctors can call death, as far as I know - certainly in the UK. That's why most car accident victims are certified Dead On Arrival (at hospital).

Stick to your CTs Fletch.

We get a giggle at how you fall for them every single time.

I'm not disputing that, I am disputing the idea that paramedics can't determine death and have to treat every dead patient they come across as being able to be revived. Presumably until they get to hospital and a Doctor sees them.

Bunkum.

[Cannydc]

Only doctors can call death, as far as I know - certainly in the UK. That's why most car accident victims are certified Dead On Arrival (at hospital).

Stick to your CTs Fletch.

We get a giggle at how you fall for them every single time.

I'm not disputing that, I am disputing the idea that paramedics can't determine death and have to treat every dead patient they come across as being able to be revived. Presumably until they get to hospital and a Doctor sees them.

Bunkum.

It isn't bunkum. Try looking it up yourself for once, perhaps Google "Can paramedics pronounce death" - and learn something.

[Fletch]

Only doctors can call death, as far as I know - certainly in the UK. That's why most car accident victims are certified Dead On Arrival (at hospital).

Stick to your CTs Fletch.

We get a giggle at how you fall for them every single time.

I'm not disputing that, I am disputing the idea that paramedics can't determine death and have to treat every dead patient they come across as being able to be revived. Presumably until they get to hospital and a Doctor sees them.

Bunkum.

It isn't bunkum. Try looking it up yourself for once, perhaps Google "Can paramedics pronounce death" - and learn something.

I like how you move the goal posts after your original assertion.

[Cannydc]

Get a grip Fletch.

You asked "Why are paramedics bagging him? " - I answered that, it is laid down procedure.

Then you asserted that he was "already dead" - I answered that, he ain't dead until officially pronounced so by a doctor. He wasn't found dead, he was found unresponsive.

Why was he on a gurney? That's how the patient is transported to hospital, to be declared dead - by a doctor.

What on Earth is so difficult to follow about that?

And one final thing - on first aid courses, certainly the ones I was on, they tell you that technically you should continue CPR even if the patient is obviously dead - though mouth to mouth may be difficult if the patient's body is in the driver's seat and his head on the rear parcel shelf.

[Stooo]

Only doctors can call death, as far as I know - certainly in the UK. That's why most car accident victims are certified Dead On Arrival (at hospital).

Stick to your CTs Fletch.

We get a giggle at how you fall for them every single time.

I'm not disputing that, I am disputing the idea that paramedics can't determine death and have to treat every dead patient they come across as being able to be revived. Presumably until they get to hospital and a Doctor sees them.

Bunkum.

It isn't bunkum. Try looking it up yourself for once, perhaps Google "Can paramedics pronounce death" - and learn something.

I've attended to a deceased person once paramedics had determined death. It was on a Sunday and I was on call. We had to wait for an hour for them to show up.

[Cannydc]

Only doctors can call death, as far as I know - certainly in the UK. That's why most car accident victims are certified Dead On Arrival (at hospital).

Stick to your CTs Fletch.

We get a giggle at how you fall for them every single time.

I'm not disputing that, I am disputing the idea that paramedics can't determine death and have to treat every dead patient they come across as being able to be revived. Presumably until they get to hospital and a Doctor sees them.

Bunkum.

It isn't bunkum. Try looking it up yourself for once, perhaps Google "Can paramedics pronounce death" - and learn something.

I've attended to a deceased person once paramedics had determined death. It was on a Sunday and I was on call. We had to wait for an hour for them to show up.

Unlucky. This is from an ex-paramedic, just found.

"In practice, yes, paramedics declare death and note the time. Everywhere I have worked, though, a physician's name needed to be on the paperwork, so I'd make a call that went like this,
"Dr. Jones at [Base Hospital]."
"Hi, Dr. Jones. This is Paramedic Holmes with [EMS Agency/Unit]. I'm calling for a pronouncement of death. We are on scene with a 75-year-old female last seen three days ago by her daughter. Daughter came to check on her today and found her deceased on the bedroom floor. I find the patient supine, cold and mottled with dependent lividity. Obvious rigor in the extremities and jaw. Pupils are fixed and dilated. Absent heart tones. Asystole in all three leads. No CPR provided."
glances at the clock "Time of death 1643."

So it can happen, but in conjunction with a conversation with an off site doctor, and his signature must appear on the paperwork.

Further down....

"...once in awhile a doctor would have cold feet about the pronouncement and order the patient brought to the hospital. This is a colossal mess, especially if you've already told the family that their loved one is dead and you haven't been providing any care."

Not sure what US rules are though, with ref to Epstein.

https://www.quora.com/Can-paramedics-de ... e-of-death

[Stooo]

Unlucky. This is from an ex-paramedic, just found.

"In practice, yes, paramedics declare death and note the time. Everywhere I have worked, though, a physician's name needed to be on the paperwork, so I'd make a call that went like this,
"Dr. Jones at [Base Hospital]."
"Hi, Dr. Jones. This is Paramedic Holmes with [EMS Agency/Unit]. I'm calling for a pronouncement of death. We are on scene with a 75-year-old female last seen three days ago by her daughter. Daughter came to check on her today and found her deceased on the bedroom floor. I find the patient supine, cold and mottled with dependent lividity. Obvious rigor in the extremities and jaw. Pupils are fixed and dilated. Absent heart tones. Asystole in all three leads. No CPR provided."
glances at the clock "Time of death 1643."

So it can happen, but in conjunction with a conversation with an off site doctor, and his signature must appear on the paperwork.

Further down....

"...once in awhile a doctor would have cold feet about the pronouncement and order the patient brought to the hospital. This is a colossal mess, especially if you've already told the family that their loved one is dead and you haven't been providing any care."

Not sure what US rules are though, with ref to Epstein.

https://www.quora.com/Can-paramedics-de ... e-of-death

The gentleman had been terminally ill for a while and his death expected. The deceased has to be declared dead at the time by certain official medical personnel before being taken into the care of a funeral director, Dr's visits will follow but I have done many home removals.

Epstein? He got suicided.